BS7671 A3/2015 July 1st deadline

[Jeggernaut]

Has anyone else noticed how little internet coverage there is for the compliance deadline of 1st July 2015 whereby all new overhead cabling in escape routes has to be fixed with metal clips? Whihc is strange because we deal a lot with councils and they have been stocking up for major changes for months from Fife right down to Penzance.

 

[alanl]

It is a regular topic on the IET forum.
'Escape Routes' and what that means has been going round and round for months.
Some think there are no escape routes in domestic properties, the majority say there are.
Then the arguments start.

 

[Darkwood]

I would class an escape route as a designated communal escape route used by anyone trying to exit a building, as the regulations were brought in as a direct response to fire persons been killed using these communal routes and getting tangled in the cables then I suspect the regulations don't carry over to domestic.

If it was for all the exit routes from dorm's, houses flats etc then I would have thought a blanket regulation to ensure all wiring is fixed in this way.

This is an opinion so subject to discussion but when you know why the reg was introduced you can have an educated guess to what is meant by an escape route... I'm currently helping design mill complex with flats and the main communal routes are all been fixed on tray with steel wraps down the stone stair well and supported regularly with all round band above any corridor etc but the flats are wired as normal.

 

[Jeggernaut]

The Councils we are in discussion with are viewing ALL exits to ALL flats as escape routes. That's why they are willing to retrofit when the new Regs say they don't need to. I guess the cost of NOT retrofitting is too high in all eventualities, human lives, law suits. Problem then arises - what do you do with all that plastic trunking in all those properties?

And another question, has anyone got a replacement for plastic rawl plugs, because I certainly don't. Anything that will melt in a fire will bring down overhead cabling and rawl plugs are a prime candidate as are plastic ties and clips.

I would class an escape route as a designated communal escape route used by anyone trying to exit a building, as the regulations were brought in as a direct response to fire persons been killed using these communal routes and getting tangled in the cables then I suspect the regulations don't carry over to domestic.

If it was for all the exit routes from dorm's, houses flats etc then I would have thought a blanket regulation to ensure all wiring is fixed in this way.

This is an opinion so subject to discussion but when you know why the reg was introduced you can have an educated guess to what is meant by an escape route... I'm currently helping design mill complex with flats and the main communal routes are all been fixed on tray with steel wraps down the stone stair well and supported regularly with all round band above any corridor etc but the flats are wired as normal.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Any entrance or exit which is likely to be used in the event of a fire would be deemed an escape route.
Prysmian FP200 now comes with a warning to use fire proof fixings.
An alternative to plastic rawlplugs would be to use a fixing gun.

 

[Darkwood]

In the event of a fire most people will exit long before the fire brigade hopefully if it meets safety standards ..where you have the communal routes these are the same routes the fire brigade may use to tackle a smaller fire or rescue someone on a larger scope ... it doesn't come down to individual flats etc its just the main escape routes..

 

[Jeggernaut]

That's not how the councils, or at least all of the 19 I have spoken to, view it. None said any different. Every door exit is an escape route in their eyes.

I agree domestic is different. I guess it comes down to who has responsibility. A landlord certainly does. With residential owners it is up to them.

 

[Jeggernaut]

Darkwood - who the victims are likely to be ... that is absolutley true, most residents will have fled. But that doesn't cover the old or infirm or bedridden. Or the firemen. Or anyone asleep.

 

[shanky887614]

Any entrance or exit which is likely to be used in the event of a fire would be deemed an escape route.
Prysmian FP200 now comes with a warning to use fire proof fixings.
An alternative to plastic rawlplugs would be to use a fixing gun.

m6 rawl bolts would work as well, in flats etc basket/tray being supported by strut hangers etc is the norm i imagine.

 

[Simlec]

Plastic raw plugs are fine, the metal clips/containment are only for premature failure and not intended for long term fire resistance. Domestic still comes under this reg, think front door/hall with cables in plastic trunking/clips.

 

[Jeggernaut]

Not sure I agree about plastic rawl plugs being fine. There's a lot of weight in cabling and if it's overhead with just a set of rawl plugs and any kind of clip holding it up count me out. I wouldn't risk my family in that situation residential or not.

 

[Diddy]

I would have thought anybody looking at rawlplugs being none compliant would be taking things just a tad too far imho. Have you/whoever even tested out the theory of what temperature is required to effect a load that is supported by a suitably installed rawl plug ?
Anyway if we are being that pedantic then there are a multitude of fixings that would cover you such as spit fixings ect ect ect.

 

[Diddy]

Also you say you would not want to risk your family in such a situation - as far as I am aware the majority of domestic houses have cables running through joists ect and are fixed to the wooden fabric of the building......Not sure how much good a fire resistant fixing would be when you are likely to be attaching it to wood.....As I say I am referring to domestic - I am aware that in commercial and larger buildings then yes we are likely to have concrete to fix to ect.

 

[Simlec]

Also you say you would not want to risk your family in such a situation - as far as I am aware the majority of domestic houses have cables running through joists ect and are fixed to the wooden fabric of the building......Not sure how much good a fire resistant fixing would be when you are likely to be attaching it to wood.....As I say I am referring to domestic - I am aware that in commercial and larger buildings then yes we are likely to have concrete to fix to ect.

But normally protected for "premature" Failure by way of a plasterboard.

 

[ackbarthestar]

Some thoughts as I'm debating with a builder regarding the installation of metal trunk down a stairway from some flats above a commercial building.

There was a very good public information film made by the fire brigade on an old Middlesborough housing estate where it was showed that within 6 mins the house was an inferno and anybody still in the upstairs bedrooms would be asphyxiated. So If a property hasn't been fully fireproofed and alarmed then its unlikely that people will get out in time.

As regards to plastic rawl plugs, these are often buried into masonary and brickwork where there is likely to be an element of thermal protection. How long that would be would be open to verification.

 

[shanky887614]

Also you say you would not want to risk your family in such a situation - as far as I am aware the majority of domestic houses have cables running through joists ect and are fixed to the wooden fabric of the building......Not sure how much good a fire resistant fixing would be when you are likely to be attaching it to wood.....As I say I am referring to domestic - I am aware that in commercial and larger buildings then yes we are likely to have concrete to fix to ect.

woods burns it doesn't melt like plastic so it wouldn't be a problem