BS7671 Vs NFPA-NEC

[Knobhead]

This would sort out most of the dross in this trade.

A legally binding code and compulsory registration.

Yes I know there’s a lot wrong in the NEC, there’s far more wrong in BS7671.

 

[ferg]

Twist nuts and a ridiculously unionised labour force.

Count me in

 

[Knobhead]

I’m not proposing we adopt their slap dash methods.

The legal aspect would be a benefit to the UK.



Anyway, what are you doing on here at stupid o’clock?

 

[Sintra]

And then there's the legalities of obtaining a permit for pretty much all electrical work. This has been the case in any state I have worked in although I'm not sure if it is enforced in the whole of the U.S. I have linked to the requirements for the State of Georgia which is the last place I worked over there.

City of Atlanta, GA : Electrical Permit

 

[Engineer54]

It's a strange set-up in the States, some states are still legally working to previous/last edition of the NEC while others are working to the latest edition....

 

[Essex_]

And then there's the legalities of obtaining a permit for pretty much all electrical work. This has been the case in any state I have worked in although I'm not sure if it is enforced in the whole of the U.S. I have linked to the requirements for the State of Georgia which is the last place I worked over there.

City of Atlanta, GA : Electrical Permit

Strange you should say that. The ESR are recommending the following:

"A model could be considered that would require that a permit be obtained from the local authority Building Control department before any regulated electrical work is started by unregistered electricians or DIY enthusiasts."

 

[Engineer54]

And then there's the legalities of obtaining a permit for pretty much all electrical work. This has been the case in any state I have worked in although I'm not sure if it is enforced in the whole of the U.S. I have linked to the requirements for the State of Georgia which is the last place I worked over there.

City of Atlanta, GA : Electrical Permit

And the really crazy thing about these NEC domestic inspections, is that neither the installing electrician or the inspector requires the installation to be tested, in fact you'll be bloody lucky if anyone conducts even a IR test. Everything is basically conducted on and around a visual based inspection...

 

[Sintra]

And the really crazy thing about these NEC domestic inspections, is that neither the installing electrician or the inspector requires the installation to be tested, in fact you'll be bloody lucky if anyone conducts even a IR test. Everything is basically conducted on and around a visual based inspection...

Lol funny you should say that. Everytime we do work over there we have to hire a local contractor to obtain the permits and to test the installations (for permit purposes) even though we install to BS7671 and issue our own certs to the same. The most testing I have seen any of these guys do is a tong test on the feeders and random branch circuits. No dead testing whatsoever, no Zs and not even proper tripping times on their GFCI's etc. all they seem to do is plug in a little martindale type device into a receptacle and check that it lights in the correct sequence, then press the GFCI trip button lol.

 

[Engineer54]

Lol funny you should say that. Everytime we do work over there we have to hire a local contractor to obtain the permits and to test the installations (for permit purposes) even though we install to BS7671 and issue our own certs to the same. The most testing I have seen any of these guys do is a tong test on the feeders and random branch circuits. No dead testing whatsoever, no Zs and not even proper tripping times on their GFCI's etc. all they seem to do is plug in a little martindale type device into a receptacle and check the lights are correct, then press the GFCI trip button lol.

You could probably count on one hand the number of electricians in the whole of the USA that possess an earth loop impedance test kit!! lol!!

I bet they were utterly amazed when they got to see the test certificates you produced!! lol!!

A typical domestic electricians test kit consists of, a couple of Multimeters, Amp clamp, voltage tester, Volt stick, sometimes a IR tester, Infrared thermal tester, or thermal coupling adaptors for multimeter, Plug-in receptacle GFCI unit. As far as testing is concerned it's a pretty sad state of affairs. It is a lot different on the major commercial projects and in many industrial concerns though.

They actually have produced some very good electrical test equipment ''Biddle'' being one of their better known manufacturing companies which has now been bought out by Megger!!

 

[Sintra]

You could probably count on one hand the number of electricians in the whole of the USA that possess an earth loop impedance test kit!! lol!!

I bet they were utterly amazed when they got to see the test certificates you produced!! lol!!

A typical domestic electricians test kit consists of, a couple of Multimeters, Amp clamp, voltage tester, Volt stick, sometimes a IR tester, Infrared thermal tester, or thermal coupling adaptors for multimeter, Plug-in receptacle GFCI unit. As far as testing is concerned it's a pretty sad state of affairs. It is a lot different on the major commercial projects and in many industrial concerns though.

They actually have produced some very good electrical test equipment ''Biddle'' being one of their better known manufacturing companies which has now been bought out by Megger!!

Lol they do wonder what the point of dead testing is. One guy explained to me that it was a waste of time and went on to explain the *Bang* test theory. On the subject of test instruments have you ever come across a device to record the tripping times of a GFCI as I have searched in vain. All I normally record is the value gained from a ramp test.

 

[Engineer54]

Yes, ....can't remember the name of the unit (it's a sort of multifunction tester, nothing like our own mind) but they are expensive. i'll have a look to see if i can find an example for you, but it matbe tomorrow now...

 

[Sintra]

That would be good if you could. Cost isn't really an isuue if it's the right tool for the job.

 

[Engineer54]

Just had a quick look, couldn't as yet find the unit i was talking about, but came across this unit

CT70 - EXTECH INSTRUMENTS - TESTER, AC CIRCUIT LOAD | Newark element14,
Check out the technical data sheet.


It's a hell of a lot cheaper at $200 than the other unit, and DOES give both tripping mA and trip times among other bits and bobs.... Also a relatively easy to make your own test lead so you can test GFCI's or whatever, that are not socket outlet based... (It comes complete with a socket connection lead)

Let me know if this unit meets your needs??...

 

[Engineer54]

I think this one is very similar to the unit i was thinking about. If it is then the price will be nearer the $2000 mark. ...lol!!

No, just found a price for this unit, (not that much difference to the unit above) and although it looks similar, the price tell's me differen't!! lol!!

http://www.idealind.com/products/test_measurement/circuit_analyzers/suretest_circuit_analyzers.jsp

 

[Knobhead]

I’m more interested in the legal requirements which was my reason for starting the thread.
Legal requirements for both the codes and especially the state licensing of electricians. Something this country should adopt. It could get the trade up off its knees.

I didn’t intend the thread to be a comparison of installation or testing methods.

 

[Engineer54]

I’m more interested in the legal requirements which were my reason for starting the thread.
Legal requirements for both the codes and especially the state licensing of electricians. Something this country should adopt. It could get the trade up of its knees.I didn’t intend the thread to be a comparison of installation or testing methods.

The qualified amongst us already know that we should adopt a similar system(s) to US/Aussi, but getting people off their arse's to do something/anything about it is the main problem. They would rather moan about it, than do anything!!

They just can't see the wood for the tree's, especially the very real fact that they would be protecting their livelihood, that in turn will lead to a REAL rise in incomes...

 

[Knobhead]

This was an attempt to get registration and adherence to regulations back in to the forum. Neither of us has anything to gain from this, but like you I’m concerned how the respect for the electrical trade has nose dived.

Had I still been working compulsory national registration would have affected me, not that it would bother me. Industrial electricians should be licensed along with the rest.

 

[Sintra]

Just had a quick look, couldn't as yet find the unit i was talking about, but came across this unit

CT70 - EXTECH INSTRUMENTS - TESTER, AC CIRCUIT LOAD | Newark element14,
Check out the technical data sheet.


It's a hell of a lot cheaper at $200 than the other unit, and DOES give both tripping mA and trip times among other bits and bobs.... Also a relatively easy to make your own test lead so you can test GFCI's or whatever, that are not socket outlet based... (It comes complete with a socket connection lead)

Let me know if this unit meets your needs??...

I think this one is very similar to the unit i was thinking about. If it is then the price will be nearer the $2000 mark. ...lol!!

No, just found a price for this unit, (not that much difference to the unit above) and although it looks similar, the price tell's me differen't!! lol!!

IDEAL INDUSTRIES, INC. - SureTest® Circuit Analyzers

Thanks for your help. I think the CT70 will do what I need.

 

[Knobhead]

Just to clarify for everyone else I’m not talking of registering with the likes of the JIB or the scams. A national register that in order to carry out electrical work you must have a minimum qualification level to carry out work in certain fields.

If national registration were to become compulsory the scams would become redundant along with their resultant lowering of standards. A reasonable level of competency could be set to become registered. No registration, no work.

 

[Sintra]

I’m more interested in the legal requirements which were my reason for starting the thread.
Legal requirements for both the codes and especially the state licensing of electricians. Something this country should adopt. It could get the trade up of its knees.

I didn’t intend the thread to be a comparison of installation or testing methods.

Sorry for taking the thread off topic.