can anyone help me out with some advice?

[fletcher23]

i have a renault clio 172 and am having a few electrical problems (i know my fault for buying french)

first one is that i have no full beam what so ever, not even the blue light on the dash, its just stopped working all other lights work fine, so far i have changed the headlight stalk as this seems to be the common suspect but no joy, checked all fuses, checked both bulbs. also made sure all relays were seated correctly. but now i don't have a clue what to look for.

my other fault is that the stereo lights don't go off (standard headunit), even when i take key out and lock the doors and this is flattening my battery so i have to disconnect the battery to save it from going flat.

not sure if the two problems are connected but any advice on what i could look for next or what i should do would be great as i am useless with electrics and don't want to be shafted by the garages.

thanks,
fletcher

 

[telectrix]

probably better luck on a renault clio forum.

 

[danzor]

Dunno if this helps.... don't buy anything French.

 

[fletcher23]

probably better luck on a renault clio forum.

i have a thread over on clio sport as well but no one seems to want to help. got one reply and that wasn't even useful, hence why i'm asking here.

 

[dan86]

hi fletcher. you say you've changed the switch.where did you get it from out of curiousity, and are you 100% sure it's fitted correctly?
also, how did you check the bulbs? and I would double check all the relays. off top of my head can't remember where they are located, but for some reason I'm thinking behind glovebox?
as for the radio, strange one! how long ago did this start to happen, and has ANY work been done to the car prior to it occurring. and I mean any work whatsoever.

 

[Marvo]

Did you check the right relays? I have a vague recollection that the light relays for the Clio are behind the glove box on the passenger side of the car. Easiest way to get to them is sit upside down in the passenger seat with your head in the footwell. These relays can become unseated.

 

[dan86]

Did you check the right relays?

that's what I wanted to say Marvo, but didn't want the guy thinking I was suggesting he was useless!

 

[dan86]

anyway, that's our input so far. your move OP...

 

[Marvo]

Yeah, I think there's relays under the bonnet as well so definitely not suggesting he's stupid (apart from buying a Renault in the first place ) My sister-in-law had a CLIO and I was unfortunate enough to have to go and rescue her from the side of the road on various occasions, I can't say too much though because my wife's car was a Scenic 1.9DCi at the time which actually ran well for 8 years.

 

[fletcher23]

thanks for the replies guys, yeah i checked the relays under the glovebox on the passenger side as they are known for being kicked loose by passengers but they were all fine.

to check the bulbs i just took them out and checked to see if the filaments were damaged but they look fine. would you suggest changing them anyway just to rule it out? and would broken bulbs cause the dash light not to work?

switch came from a clio at the scrap yard and i fitted it the same way as i removed the old one. all other lights still work remember just not high beam. the stalk clicks as it should when i pull it but nothing happens. really confusing for me.

about the stereo, if i changed it to an aftermarket one, am i likely to still have the problem with the lights not going out?

 

[dan86]

right- you seem to have checked the correct relays. no problem there it would seem.
if you only checked bulbs visually, I would change them for known good ones to rule it out. but no, it shouldn't stop the tell tale light on your dash working.
and the reason I asked about the switch- I was afraid toy were gonna say what you did!
as you pointed out before, the switch is a known common fault, and is Highly possible that the one you have is also faulty.

 

[fletcher23]

forgot to mention that its had a new battery but the faults were there with the last one as well. apart from that no work has been done recently.

 

[dan86]

oh,and as for the head unit- it sounds like the switched live and constant live are jumbled up. also a common mistake

 

[fletcher23]

possibly but from what i understand is that the stalk is know for causing dipped beam and sidelight problems, i cant seem to find another person on the net with the same problem as me.

i would have to be very unlucky to buy another stalk with this rare problem but not impossible i guess.

 

[fletcher23]

the stereo has not been touched though the problem just appeared on its on. its still the original stereo. as i have basically no electrical knowledge u can imagine how confusing this is for me.

 

[dan86]

possibly but from what i understand is that the stalk is know for causing dipped beam and sidelight problems, i cant seem to find another person on the net with the same problem as me.

i would have to be very unlucky to buy another stalk with this rare problem but not impossible i guess.

I've changed the switch before for the same problem you have.
and how did you check the fuses?

 

[Marvo]

TBH if you've checked the right relays and checked the fuses then that's me stumped. If I were you I'd see I could find a wiring diagram and then disconnect the stalk and test the switches in it were working. You can test the bulbs with a multimeter as well but usually if you can see the two filaments are in tact then they should be okay.

 

[dan86]

the stereo has not been touched though the problem just appeared on its on. its still the original stereo. as i have basically no electrical knowledge u can imagine how confusing this is for me.

hmm, I'll need to think a bit more on that one. it's obviously not recognising when the ignition is off. I'll get back to you on that!

 

[fletcher23]

i checked the fuses by pulling them out one by one and looking for any blown/broken ones but they were all fine.

haha well if it has electricians stumped then i am definately screwed. guess i will have to take it to a local auto sparky.

 

[dan86]

I am a sparky, but also a vehicle technician and it has me stumped! hard over the internet mind...

 

[fletcher23]

i will change the bulbs in the morning and see how it goes but i'm doubtful. thanks for the advice much appreciated.

 

[dan86]

I'm doubtful n all, but worth a shot!
no probs bud. sorry I couldn't help anymore. let us know when you work it out!

 

[fletcher23]

if.. i ever work it out haha. never buying french again should have stayed with german cars but couldn't resist a fast french hot hatch

 

[Guest111]

Have you looked for other fuses?sometimes they have an extra set that is not in the main box,on the original mini there was a separate fuse for the tail lights and it was located behind the speedo in the middle of the dash.If it went the front sidelights and headlights worked but not the rear lights,incidentally I had a clio once,paid £300 for it and had nearly 3 years of trouble free motoring,never cost me a penny and went all over the country in it.

 

[Des 56]

I haven't touched much auto electrics since they decided that the 2 pence rectifiers were better sited inside the alternator casing(now I wonder why one of the most efficient machines on the planet had a prone to breakdown two bit rectifier inserted)
Maybe it was to have "reconditioned"(laughs loudly) alternators as a money spinner for the motor trade, anyway I digress



You have changed the stalk
You have checked the fuses
You have checked/changed the bulbs ( lamps) (that is just to stop the anti bulb brigade from having a nervous breakdown)

I would put my money on the relay

You will of course have to identify what does what, but if there is another relay with identical function I would as a temporary measure swop one for another

 

[jon small]

haven't done much on auto electrics in recent years but it certainly seems to me that the most likely cause of problems would be the relays - I would try replacing the dim-dip relay which may have failed and gone to "get home mode" - have had trouble with these in the past on vauxhall's and maybe the high / low beam relay as well, best of luck you'll need it as French auto electrics can be a law unto themselves - have spent countless hours chasing weird faults on French cars ( anyone remember facels? most of the wires on the last one i did were black - a bit like older Honda's) -jon

 

[fletcher23]

i changed the bulbs today but no change as i suspected, ordered a multi meter to test the relays and check if power is getting to bulb socket.

 

[Marvo]

I advise caution when using a multimeter to test inside the lamp holders etc. It's very easy to cause a short circuit and cause more problems so use insulated probes with just the tips exposed. If you get a mulitmeter you could also test the switches in the stalk by unplugging it and continuity testing at the socket.

 

[NickD]

i have a renault clio 172 and am having a few electrical problems (i know my fault for buying french)

first one is that i have no full beam what so ever, not even the blue light on the dash, its just stopped working all other lights work fine, so far i have changed the headlight stalk as this seems to be the common suspect but no joy, checked all fuses, checked both bulbs. also made sure all relays were seated correctly. but now i don't have a clue what to look for.

Does it use a single bulb which combines both the dipped and full beam elements in one bulb? Or does it have a separate dipped bulb and full beam bulb?

Get an electrical diagram showing the complete supply run from the battery to the connector at the full beam bulb. This will show the path of current through maybe a fuse, then maybe another fuse, then maybe a relay, then maybe the headlight stalk, then maybe a relay again, then maybe a connector, etc. etc. Obtain a test meter or test lamp and work out how to use it (bear in mind the black/ground/return lead will need to be connected to battery negative, or another suitable ground such as bare metal on the chassis - the outer shell of the cigarette lighter socket is often a good one to go for). Then switch the car and lights on (probably don't need engine running) such that the main beam should be on. Then find points in the supply run which you can get at, and test them to see if they have 12V on. As soon as you find a point in the run that doesn't have 12V, you need to work your way back from there to the battery to find the first point which does have 12V on - and just after that point is where your fault is. The bad news is that car wiring is generally a sod to get at. Have fun....

my other fault is that the stereo lights don't go off (standard headunit), even when i take key out and lock the doors and this is flattening my battery so i have to disconnect the battery to save it from going flat.

Connector to the stereo which should be being supplied from the switched 12V (goes off when key removed) is being supplied from the permanent 12V (direct connection to battery via fuse(s), never gets switched off). Pull the stereo and check the connection. If you're lucky it's ISO standard connections, the connection diagram/colour codes for which you will find easily via Google. Your challenge will be finding a switched 12V point to supply the stereo from. Often the cigarette lighter supply is suitable but sometimes these are unswitched, so check first.

 

[fletcher23]

Does it use a single bulb which combines both the dipped and full beam elements in one bulb? Or does it have a separate dipped bulb and full beam bulb?

Get an electrical diagram showing the complete supply run from the battery to the connector at the full beam bulb. This will show the path of current through maybe a fuse, then maybe another fuse, then maybe a relay, then maybe the headlight stalk, then maybe a relay again, then maybe a connector, etc. etc. Obtain a test meter or test lamp and work out how to use it (bear in mind the black/ground/return lead will need to be connected to battery negative, or another suitable ground such as bare metal on the chassis - the outer shell of the cigarette lighter socket is often a good one to go for). Then switch the car and lights on (probably don't need engine running) such that the main beam should be on. Then find points in the supply run which you can get at, and test them to see if they have 12V on. As soon as you find a point in the run that doesn't have 12V, you need to work your way back from there to the battery to find the first point which does have 12V on - and just after that point is where your fault is. The bad news is that car wiring is generally a sod to get at. Have fun....



Connector to the stereo which should be being supplied from the switched 12V (goes off when key removed) is being supplied from the permanent 12V (direct connection to battery via fuse(s), never gets switched off). Pull the stereo and check the connection. If you're lucky it's ISO standard connections, the connection diagram/colour codes for which you will find easily via Google. Your challenge will be finding a switched 12V point to supply the stereo from. Often the cigarette lighter supply is suitable but sometimes these are unswitched, so check first.

hi thanks for the reply, i have ordered a multi meter it should be here tomorrow, so i will test all the relative power points u mentioned and go from there. i have cured the stereo problem by removing it and fitting an aftermarket one. must have delevoped a fault within the actual stereo.

will let you all know my results when i do the tests.

edit- its a single high beam bulb, dipped beams are xenon and different style of bulb.

 

[PEG]

Hi bud,,wiring on these and other French vehicles is poor.Inadequate contact area on multi-plugs and track connectors,and small csa cables that can wick moisture 4 meters straight into ECu's. If you get an electronic test lamp (MAC tools do a good one) that can test wiring along its' run,you lessen the risk of damaging any sensitive equipment. Use this and "line-trace" your live TO the relay,and then FROM it,to the light unit.Remember you will be doing this to and from the light stalk as well. Note,or mark cables colour/ID No. and be prepared to loose a day,weight and the will to live...Good luck fella.

 

[fletcher23]

Hi bud,,wiring on these and other French vehicles is poor.Inadequate contact area on multi-plugs and track connectors,and small csa cables that can wick moisture 4 meters straight into ECu's. If you get an electronic test lamp (MAC tools do a good one) that can test wiring along its' run,you lessen the risk of damaging any sensitive equipment. Use this and "line-trace" your live TO the relay,and then FROM it,to the light unit.Remember you will be doing this to and from the light stalk as well. Note,or mark cables colour/ID No. and be prepared to loose a day,weight and the will to live...Good luck fella.

i tested all the relays today, with car battery and multimeter and they all clicked and showed the correct readings, so thats bulbs, and relays out the way. i'm going to try a mates headlight stalk this weekend as i know that definately works on his car, if that fails i give up and will be taking it to an auto electrician because i have absolutely no clue whatsoever on how to test the wires etc, even though you have just described what to do it just confuses me haha.

 

[dan86]

keep us updated

 

[NickD]

i tested all the relays today, with car battery and multimeter and they all clicked and showed the correct readings, so thats bulbs, and relays out the way. i'm going to try a mates headlight stalk this weekend as i know that definately works on his car, if that fails i give up and will be taking it to an auto electrician because i have absolutely no clue whatsoever on how to test the wires etc, even though you have just described what to do it just confuses me haha.

Why are you testing *all* the relays (and how)? I suggest you try what I said - get wiring diagram, put lights onto main beam, work your way back from the bulb until you find the first point with 12V on, your fault is just downstream of that.

 

[vernam616]

Can of petrol and a match is your best bet

Renaults not worth a w**k

 

[fletcher23]

Why are you testing *all* the relays (and how)? I suggest you try what I said - get wiring diagram, put lights onto main beam, work your way back from the bulb until you find the first point with 12V on, your fault is just downstream of that.

why not? i suspected a bad relay so i tested them. what the problem with that? i tested them by connecting them to my battery with croc clips then testing them for resistance/continuity what ever u call it. they would have to be tested at some point anyway so may aswel do it now while i have a multimeter.

and have you tried getting a hold of a wiring diagram for a clio? they are like hens teeth, plus i wouldn't be able to make sense of it.

- - - Updated - - -

Can of petrol and a match is your best bet

Renaults not worth a w**k

thanks for that useful input!

 

[fletcher23]

ok so i have narrowed it down to before the fusebox, high beam fuses are not getting any voltage at all so it has to be the stalk or a broken wire/bad ground somewhere near the stalk right?

how can i actually test the stalk with a multi meter when its plugged in? its strange that the one stalk i picked from the scrappies would have the same fault as the last one. remember all other lights work fine using both original stalk and the one from scrappies, just not high beam.

 

[NickD]

why not? i suspected a bad relay so i tested them.

Because it's not good use of your time and you may do some harm by inexpert testing. You need to know what relay(s) are involved in the fuse circuit

and have you tried getting a hold of a wiring diagram for a clio?

Yeah, I went in to a Renault Dealer once, said "Can I have a wiring diagram for a Clio?", guy said "Yeah, that seems like a fair swap"....

Clios are extremely common cars. Haynes manual? Service manual off eBay? Google? Renault/Clio forums? Then if you can fathom it post pics on here and hopefully people will help.

 

[NickD]

ok so i have narrowed it down to before the fusebox, high beam fuses are not getting any voltage at all so it has to be the stalk or a broken wire/bad ground somewhere near the stalk right?

Dunno. You need to know what sits between the high beam fuses and the battery.

how can i actually test the stalk with a multi meter when its plugged in?

Probably easier to take it out and test but first you'll need to know what terminals of the stalk the high beam switch within the stalk is connected to. Basically you need a pinout or connection diagram for the stalk.

its strange that the one stalk i picked from the scrappies would have the same fault as the last one

Not that strange. Maybe it's a design flaw within the stalk and that's the bit that tends to go. Bit like saying how strange it is that two Mini Metros should both be rusty

 

[Guest111]

can you hear a click when you operate the stalk? if not it's on the switching side,if you can then it's on the power side.The feed goes through the relay then splits to 2 fuses which then go one to each light.Iirc it's the white relay that controls the lights,this is located under the passenger side of the dashboard.

 

[NickD]

can you hear a click when you operate the stalk? if not it's on the switching side

...or it's broken - not hearing a click won't necessarily tell you much. But hearing a click will. When he says hear a click he means hear a click from a relay, not within the stalk. Sorry if that's obvious.

 

[fletcher23]

thanks i will try renault for a diagram, i don't have a haynes manual. i can hear the relay click when i turn the stalk to dipped headlights, but not when i try and activate the full beam.

phil- the relays i have under the dash are 6 small black/grey ones, haven't seen any white relays in there.
the relays under the dash are not labelled for there use and i can't seem to find any info about which one controls what on the internet, thats why i took them all out to test as they are all the same so didn't matter which order they were put back in.

i have the old stalk here so if i find out what controls the full beam how would i test it?

 

[NickD]

thanks i will try renault for a diagram...

i have the old stalk here so if i find out what controls the full beam how would i test it?

Going to Renault will probably take forever. Try forums. There are definitely service manuals on eBay on CD for a couple of quid.

If you can find out what pins on the stalk are for the main beam switch, put your mutleymeter on ohms or continuity setting; in the main-beam-on position the switch should be closed, so continuity or low resistance measured between the pins, and in the off position, no continuity or high resistance.

 

[fletcher23]

ok this is the headlight stalk from underneath, i can see where the full beam terminals are located (pictured) but how do i test them i.e where do i put the test leads? sorry for being so thick but electrics are not my thing.

 

[NickD]

ok this is the headlight stalk from underneath, i can see where the full beam terminals are located (pictured) but how do i test them i.e where do i put the test leads? sorry for being so thick but electrics are not my thing.

No offence but if you don't understand how to use the meter to do this, how did you test the relays?

Meter onto ohms/continuity range. Probes into correct orifices in meter front (if present) for ohm/continuity range. Put stalk into high beam position. Put probes onto those two terminals. Should see continuity / low ohms reading. Probes off. Put stalk into dipped beam position. Put probes onto those two terminals. Should see no continuity / high ohms reading.

There is a big assumption here which is that the high beam switch inside the stalk is a simple on/off across those two terminals, which I have no way of knowing without seeing a circuit diagram for the stalk or the wiring.

 

[clydey]

can you be a bit more specific on the clio
ie daytime running lights or not
year of manufacture
size of engine
got a few different diagrams for clio,clio 11 and clio 111 and their variations and need pointed in the right direction cheers