Charging out for apprentices

[monkeyhanger]

What do the rest of you charge the customer for apprentice labour?

If you paid the apprentice by JIB rates,
Stage 4 £9.97

Stage 3 £9.42

Stage 2 £6.51

Stage 1 £4.42

Full pay is £12.64 (transport provided) for a standard electrician.

I have a stage 2 apprentice. Realistically, what should I be charging him out at?
I'm a bit worried about when he'll start expecting 'stage 3' pay. At the moment there is only the two of us, and some days with travelling about, pricing jobs, going to the bank etc. I don't clear that kind of money for myself alone never mind both of us! (Although there is sometimes the odd 'good day' to make up for it). Ideally at stage 3 it would help if he had his own van, however, at around 20 year old the insurance quotes I've been getting... it would be cheaper to take on an older fully trained spark!
Bearing in mind taxes / holiday pay / uniform / tools / days when I won't make enough to support even myself!!

Thanks for any advice

 

[telectrix]

charge the customer double what you are paying the app.

 

[telectrix]

on the basis, sparks' wage is about £12-£13, self employed you double this to customer as you are funding van, insurances etc. on top.

 

[monkeyhanger]

Thanks.
I need to split labour & hours of myself & apprentice for an invoice and I always worry about putting apprentice pay separately, since I once invoiced a customer who refused to pay for the apprentice being on the job because he'd seen him 'walking around aimlessly' (we were carrying out an EICR on a decent sized factory unit where NOTHING was labelled, piles of wood etc. covering accessories etc. We even found consumer units that the staff didn't know where there. If the apprentice hadn't have been with me I'd have been there 4x as long)!

 

[MDJ]

110 percent on his hourly rate

 

[telectrix]

so i said double. mike says 110%. that should give you a good idea.

 

[dan86]

What do the rest of you charge the customer for apprentice labour?

If you paid the apprentice by JIB rates,
Stage 4 £9.97

Stage 3 £9.42

Stage 2 £6.51

Stage 1 £4.42

Full pay is £12.64 (transport provided) for a standard electrician.

I have a stage 2 apprentice. Realistically, what should I be charging him out at?
I'm a bit worried about when he'll start expecting 'stage 3' pay. At the moment there is only the two of us, and some days with travelling about, pricing jobs, going to the bank etc. I don't clear that kind of money for myself alone never mind both of us! (Although there is sometimes the odd 'good day' to make up for it). Ideally at stage 3 it would help if he had his own van, however, at around 20 year old the insurance quotes I've been getting... it would be cheaper to take on an older fully trained spark!
Bearing in mind taxes / holiday pay / uniform / tools / days when I won't make enough to support even myself!!

Thanks for any advice

why take on an apprentice if you can't afford to pay him or at the very least, struggle to?!

 

[monkeyhanger]

Because over a year ago, as now, I thought it was a good idea (and it is). If I couldn't afford to pay him, he wouldn't be with me. I was making an unrelated point about the relatively big 45% pay increase between stage 2 and stage 3 in the JIB rates, and the high cost of van insurance for 20 year olds. The apprentice in question very much appreciates the opportunity, by the way.

It isn't 'affording' a Stage 3 apprentice I am worried about, it's him being able to do enough work for me to afford to pay him the appropriate *JIB rate*, when the time comes.
I don't HAVE to adhere to £9.42 when the time comes, but I'd like to. Being realistic, in the current climate around where I live (not unheard of for 3 bed semis getting rewired for under £900, & lads expected to clear 5 EICRS a day to achieve the equivalent of £10 an hour) I might not always be able to. However, he is already above the minimum wage, and I'm sure he would rather be doing this than sitting at home all day writing applications out for Mc Donalds like most of the others from his college who couldn't find jobs.

I may have exaggerated about it being cheaper to take on an older fully trained spark, however it was just to illustrate a point.

Thanks for your helpful input dan86, how much do you pay your apprentice?

 

[dan86]

sorry monkeyhanger. I may have misunderstood the OP.
As has been mentioned, around double what you pay him is about right, there or there abouts.
regarding insurance, there was a thread not that long ago. perhaps take a look in there and see if you can get a more competitive quote?
oh, and FYI- I pay my apprentice £8.95 p/h. He is a motor technician though and works in my garage. I have no apprentice sparky.

 

[monkeyhanger]

Cheers! & sorry, I'm getting a bit edgy after doing paperwork since dinner time haha.
The insurance is up for renewal in less than a fortnight too so perhaps I'll have a good go at shopping about this time around

 

[dan86]

this is the thread I was on about, although there's quite a few!

 

[monkeyhanger]

Lowest quotes- £630 (myself) or £2350 with the apprentice as an additional driver, although he passed his test two years ago! Bit of a difference!

 

[shanky887614]

Lowest quotes- £630 (myself) or £2350 with the apprentice as an additional driver, although he passed his test two years ago! Bit of a difference!

I got a quote on c1 for 900-1200 a year so not too bad

That quote was if i owned car and only person on insurance (im 20 as well)

 

[monkeyhanger]

I got a quote on c1 for 900-1200 a year so not too bad

That quote was if i owned car and only person on insurance (im 20 as well)

The 2350 was with apprentice as named driver. Two year old 2.2 litre T260 transit van / sign written / roof rack / 15,000 miles a year, protected NCB / legal assistance / courtesy van. If I put his date of birth in as 21 years old it went down to around £1100! Take him off all together & its a nice sensible £630!

If there were around 250 working days in the year, at £2350 thats nearly a tenner a day overhead just for van insurance alone. That isn't affordable when you have to factor in other insurances, road tax, diesel, scheme membership and so on :/

Insurance is a joke! I've been paying my own fully comp insurance for 7 years and not one accident!

That reminds me of an old couple who refused to have smokes on their house rewire. "We've lived here for 50 year and we've never had one fire". . . sorry old timer you're missing the point

 

[Spurs]

Hi.we work out of London. I have two apprentices, I pay them £60 and £90 and charge them out at £ 120 and £180 respectively.
Although a four bed rewire would be at least 5 grand.
Try not to itemise your invoces. Just have one labour charge and include your and you staff.
Good luck

 

[DomCallear]

In regards to the van insurance, if the apprentice in question is only driving to and from site with his basic tools and light materials have you thought about paying him mileage? And him using his own car... Clearly this only works if he has his own car :cheesy:

 

[gaz101]

Try your insurance any driver
mine is any driver over 17 13 plate trafic sport £500 per van