Crimping tool

[Pete999]

I tried to crimp this small wire into but connector 1.5 mm, but wire is too small and I can't crimp it good. I don't know what the size of wire is.
What should I do with the wire, should I fold it back down the wire insulation and crimp all of it?
View attachment 58335

Can't you get a smaller butt crimp?

 

[Elecmox]

Can't you get a smaller butt crimp?

No, that's the smallest I could find.

 

[telectrix]

Is this good Kelco - Detalji proizvoda - Wago spojnica, 32A/600V, za provodnik 0.08mm-4mm², dvopolna - http://www.kelco.rs/katalog/detalji.php?ID=15382

they are OK, but have been superceded by the more compact 221 series.

 

[Elecmox]

they are OK, but have been superceded by the more compact 221 series.

Yes, I know, they are smaller and better.

 

[Simon47]

As an aside, CoP11 for installation of LPG conversions in vehicles prohibits crimping of terminals - they have to be soldered. For the reasons made obvious in this thread - it's just so very easy to make "rubbish" crimps, and "a bit easier" to glue things together with solder.

 

[Elecmox]

As an aside, CoP11 for installation of LPG conversions in vehicles prohibits crimping of terminals - they have to be soldered. For the reasons made obvious in this thread - it's just so very easy to make "rubbish" crimps, and "a bit easier" to glue things together with solder.

Soldering can go wrong either, but I guess LPG can't afford bad crimp connections for obvious reasons.

 

[Simon47]

Probably not the obvious reasons you are thinking of - LPG (basically commercial propane) is highly flammable, but it's completely contained.
It really is down to stopping people doing conversions with wrongly sized terminals "crimped" using the cheap plier type of tool. With soldering, at least if you get it stuck in the first place, it's most likely going to stay stuck. If you don't get it stuck, then it's normally obvious as the terminal drops off the wire between soldering and crimping the strain relief.

 

[Elecmox]

Probably not the obvious reasons you are thinking of - LPG (basically commercial propane) is highly flammable, but it's completely contained.
It really is down to stopping people doing conversions with wrongly sized terminals "crimped" using the cheap plier type of tool. With soldering, at least if you get it stuck in the first place, it's most likely going to stay stuck. If you don't get it stuck, then it's normally obvious as the terminal drops off the wire between soldering and crimping the strain relief.

If those stupid crimp tools aren't so ridiculously expensive, people wouldn't use cheap bad pliers. I mean seriously, 50 Euros or pounds for simple piece of metal? C'mon, for 50 Euros I'll buy mobile phone.

 

[Pete999]

If those stupid crimp tools aren't so ridiculously expensive, people wouldn't use cheap bad pliers. I mean seriously, 50 Euros or pounds for simple piece of metal? C'mon, for 50 Euros I'll buy mobile phone.

Yeah but a mobile phone will only crimp yer wallet

 

[telectrix]

If those stupid crimp tools aren't so ridiculously expensive, people wouldn't use cheap bad pliers. I mean seriously, 50 Euros or pounds for simple piece of metal? C'mon, for 50 Euros I'll buy mobile phone.

get me a samsung galaxy A70 then. i give you 100 eurines.

seriously though, with tools, you get what you pay for. mine were £65, but i know i can rely on them. even a decent pair of wire cutters will set you back £30.

 

[Simon47]

Even if you could get a half decent ratchet for a tenner - people would still insist on using a £2 pair of pliers !

 

[Elecmox]

Even if you could get a half decent ratchet for a tenner - people would still insist on using a £2 pair of pliers !

Because that's the real price! OK, not 2 but maximum 10. More then that it's a legal rip off.

 

[Pete999]

Even if you could get a half decent ratchet for a tenner - people would still insist on using a £2 pair of pliers !

In this era of boil in the bag Sparkies, I agree, the general public are very gullible when it come to hiring trades people, as I found out when I was working away overseas, and my Wife was having problems with electrics, plumbing etc, if only She had the names and addresses of the guilty.
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Because that's the real price! OK, not 2 but maximum 10. More then that it's a legal rip off.

You could always employ someone who had the tools and expertise to do the job property, you get nothing for nothing in this life?

 

[Elecmox]

get me a samsung galaxy A70 then. i give you 100 eurines.

seriously though, with tools, you get what you pay for. mine were £65, but i know i can rely on them. even a decent pair of wire cutters will set you back £30.

Here in Serbia you can buy for 50 Euros (5.990 serbian dinars) Alcatel 5" with Android 8.0 Alcatel 1C DS Crni 5", QC 1.3GHz/1GB/8GB/8&5Mpix/Android 8.0 - https://www.winwin.rs/mobilni-i-fiksni-telefoni/mobilni-telefoni/smart-mobilni-telefoni/smart-telefon-alcatel-1c-ds-crni-5-qc-1-3ghz-1gb-8gb-8-5mpix-android-8-0-8656624.html

 

[Elecmox]

In this era of boil in the bag Sparkies, I agree, the general public are very gullible when it come to hiring trades people, as I found out when I was working away overseas, and my Wife was having problems with electrics, plumbing etc, if only She had the names and addresses of the guilty.
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You could always employ someone who had the tools and expertise to do the job property, you get nothing for nothing in this life?

I'll not pay for crimping one wire a 5 euros as I didn't. I am sick of people overcharging stupid jobs. As I said, I bought solder iron, solder and holder for 7 euros and solder wires for myself. I did the job, and I learned soldering for future.

 

[davesparks]

If those stupid crimp tools aren't so ridiculously expensive, people wouldn't use cheap bad pliers. I mean seriously, 50 Euros or pounds for simple piece of metal? C'mon, for 50 Euros I'll buy mobile phone.

£50 for a decent set of crimper is relatively cheap, considering they should last many years and will make thousands of good connections.

 

[Elecmox]

£50 for a decent set of crimper is relatively cheap, considering they should last many years and will make thousands of good connections.

Really, you think crimper is worth as a mobile phone? I wonder if someone would trade mobile phone for a crimper!?

This crimper costs 25 Euros, but I don't know if they are good. Kelco - Detalji proizvoda - Krimp klešta za izolovane flah papučice, hilzne... - http://www.kelco.rs/katalog/detalji.php?ID=10664

 

[davesparks]

Really, you think crimper is worth as a mobile phone? I wonder if someone would trade mobile phone for a crimper!?

This crimper costs 25 Euros, but I don't know if they are good. Kelco - Detalji proizvoda - Krimp klešta za izolovane flah papučice, hilzne... - http://www.kelco.rs/katalog/detalji.php?ID=10664

There is no comparison between a crimper an a mobile phone, they are not equivalent items in any way.

I doubt anyone would trade a mobile phone for a crimper, but then I doubt that anyone would trade a mobile phone for anything else of similar value.

Good quality tools are worth a lot of money, I buy good quality tools and they make my job quicker an easier so that I make more money.
If I spend £50 on a crimper and it lasts me 5 years that is better value than spending £20 on a crimper that only lasts me 1 year.

I think if I totalled up all of the different types of crimper I own I've probably spent a few thousand pounds over the years.

 

[Pennywise]

This thread is brilliant

 

[telectrix]

This thread is brilliant

not if it costs more than 7 eouros

 

[Elecmox]

There is no comparison between a crimper an a mobile phone, they are not equivalent items in any way.

I doubt anyone would trade a mobile phone for a crimper, but then I doubt that anyone would trade a mobile phone for anything else of similar value.

Good quality tools are worth a lot of money, I buy good quality tools and they make my job quicker an easier so that I make more money.
If I spend £50 on a crimper and it lasts me 5 years that is better value than spending £20 on a crimper that only lasts me 1 year.

I think if I totalled up all of the different types of crimper I own I've probably spent a few thousand pounds over the years.

I have a pliers that I bought for 5 Euros that lasts 15 years, price is not the only measurement of quality, but that's not the point I am talking about.
My point about this specific tool is that they are just pliers shaped for one function that is not so complex and that they are charging it outrageously expensive and that is a rip off.
I am comparing complexity of mobile phone with all engineering and design built into it with pliers that is just shaped iron cast. I am showing an example of how people are ripped off with such tools. For me there is no reason that they should cost more then 10 euros.

 

[davesparks]

I have a pliers that I bought for 5 Euros that lasts 15 years, price is not the only measurement of quality, but that's not the point I am talking about.
My point about this specific tool is that they are just pliers shaped for one function that is not so complex and that they are charging it outrageously expensive and that is a rip off.
I am comparing complexity of mobile phone with all engineering and design built into it with pliers that is just shaped iron cast. I am showing an example of how people are ripped off with such tools. For me there is no reason that they should cost more then 10 euros.

Yes, I'm sure we've all got very old tools which were bought cheaply, that doesn't necessarily mean they are in good condition or performing as well as they did when they were new.

Good crimper are not just a pair of specially shaped pliers!
Good crimpers have a calibrated mechnaism to provide a specific amount of pressure, and precision made dies to provide exactly the right shape to the crimp.

 

[Elecmox]

Yes, I'm sure we've all got very old tools which were bought cheaply, that doesn't necessarily mean they are in good condition or performing as well as they did when they were new.

Good crimper are not just a pair of specially shaped pliers!
Good crimpers have a calibrated mechnaism to provide a specific amount of pressure, and precision made dies to provide exactly the right shape to the crimp.

OK, I'll rise the max price to 15 Euros. Give me valid reasons for the rest 35 Euros.

 

[davesparks]

OK, I'll rise the max price to 15 Euros. Give me valid reasons for the rest 35 Euros.

I haven't even seen the £50 crimper being discussed here so don't know if it would be worth it or not.

For reference the crimper I have for red/blue/yellow crimps was about £85 about 6 years ago, it has served me well and as far as I know none of the connections I haveade with it have failed.

 

[Elecmox]

I haven't even seen the £50 crimper being discussed here so don't know if it would be worth it or not.

For reference the crimper I have for red/blue/yellow crimps was about £85 about 6 years ago, it has served me well and as far as I know none of the connections I haveade with it have failed.

I just can't justify that kind of price for such item. I understand that is usefull and all that, but I just can't accept that kind of price/function ratio.

 

[telectrix]

it's like comparing a Ferrari with a Reliant Robin. you get what you pay for.

 

[Mfctitch]

These are like Rolls Royce of crimps.

ho like those but any suggestions for uninsulated up to 16mm?

 

[Elecmox]

it's like comparing a Ferrari with a Reliant Robin. you get what you pay for.

Yes, but Ferrari is not worth it also.

 

[davesparks]

ho like those but any suggestions for uninsulated up to 16mm?

SWA (specialised wiring accessories, not the cable) do a good range of crimping tools at sensible prices.
I'm pretyy sure they are badge engineered copies of old BICC designs but I've never yet had a problem using them.
I've got the hex crimper which does 6 through 50mm uninsulated crimps and the indent crimper which does 6mm to 25mm (though I don't know where that one is at the moment)

 

[Pennywise]

ho like those but any suggestions for uninsulated up to 16mm?

I use these from Davico or they’re a rebranded version, perfect form factor as they are small and fit in a tool bag quite nicely as a lot of crimpers that go up to 16mm tend to be the larger boltcroper looking ones. Only downside is you need a little more wrist power ?

 

[Simon47]

Good quality tools are worth a lot of money, I buy good quality tools and they make my job quicker an easier so that I make more money.

It's not just that. Yes there's an element of "quicker and easier" which means you can do a better job and/or do it cheaper.
But IMO there's a MUCH more important factor - using the RIGHT tool for each job means doing a better quality job with less scope for damage or latent faults that will cause problems down the line.

My point about this specific tool is that they are just pliers shaped for one function that is not so complex and that they are charging it outrageously expensive and that is a rip off.

"Rip off" is a subjective term. Your perspective is as someone who only needs to do a small number of crimps - and doing them for yourself so YOU can make the value judgement as to how much to spend on tooling vs the risks of doing an inferior job vs the costs of doing it another way.
For most people in this thread, the vlaue judgement is not so much "how cheaply can I do these two crimps", but "what is the best value for a tool that will last a good few years, operate reliably, and do quality reliable crimps that won't cause me "warranty work" costs or reputation damage down the line.
And something you need to factor in to these "simple pliers" is that they are typically many stampings (or perhaps laser cut pieces) that need design and tooling, plus tooling for assembly, etc, etc - and all for a relatively low volume product. There's a difference between a pair of ordinary pliers that will sell many millions and a more complex crimper that will sell in the tens or perhaps hundreds of thousand units.
I've just grabbed my pair (admittedly not a particularly high spec) of insulated terminal crimpers to examine.
The plier type you first mentioned is basically 2 stamped steel plates, a rivet, and two plastic handle covers. A grand total of 5 parts.
This ratchet crimper (similar, but not identical to this one) has TEN (2 different shapes) stampings just for the crimp dies. Some designs have a pair of castings or forgings - but that is probably a higher tooling cost up-front. Some allow the dies to be swapped, allowing the use of one frame for multiple terminal types.
Then the frame has another eight stampings, plus a couple more for the ratchet assembly, plus (I think) twenty seven pins, screws, rivets, circlips. A couple of springs. ... And a couple of plastic handles.
So a total of 12 different stamped parts in a total of about 51 parts (and the one I've linked to above will have a couple more with being adjustable).
TEN times as many parts, made to tighter tolerances, IMO a bargain at the price they charge for it.

BTW, I don't have a lot of the tools others here do. I only do electrics as a "hobby", so I simply don't have the volume of work to justify the expenditure for many of them. For example, I don't have a PAT tester - I couldn't justify the cost, and will spend a little longer doing it the long way round using my MFT.
Many of the tools I do have, such as the MFT, I've picked up when I've seen bargains - IIRC the MFT was from a batch going cheap on eBay from a hire/testing house, presumably when they were upgrading their in-service stuff. It's not the best or fastest - but then I can afford to take a little longer on the low volume of work I do. Some tools I've made, some tools my late father made.

 

[Pete999]

OK, I'll rise the max price to 15 Euros. Give me valid reasons for the rest 35 Euros.

I'll not pay for crimping one wire a 5 euros as I didn't. I am sick of people overcharging stupid jobs. As I said, I bought solder iron, solder and holder for 7 euros and solder wires for myself. I did the job, and I learned soldering for future.

OK but did you use a lug, ferrule designed for soldering or did you butcher an insulated type of lug, ferrule?

 

[Elecmox]

OK but did you use a lug, ferrule designed for soldering or did you butcher an insulated type of lug, ferrule?

No, I soldered wires directly to the terminals of speakers.
Why would I use ferrule for soldering two wires if I can solder them by connecting?
[automerge]1591019129[/automerge]

It's not just that. Yes there's an element of "quicker and easier" which means you can do a better job and/or do it cheaper.
But IMO there's a MUCH more important factor - using the RIGHT tool for each job means doing a better quality job with less scope for damage or latent faults that will cause problems down the line.

"Rip off" is a subjective term. Your perspective is as someone who only needs to do a small number of crimps - and doing them for yourself so YOU can make the value judgement as to how much to spend on tooling vs the risks of doing an inferior job vs the costs of doing it another way.
For most people in this thread, the vlaue judgement is not so much "how cheaply can I do these two crimps", but "what is the best value for a tool that will last a good few years, operate reliably, and do quality reliable crimps that won't cause me "warranty work" costs or reputation damage down the line.
And something you need to factor in to these "simple pliers" is that they are typically many stampings (or perhaps laser cut pieces) that need design and tooling, plus tooling for assembly, etc, etc - and all for a relatively low volume product. There's a difference between a pair of ordinary pliers that will sell many millions and a more complex crimper that will sell in the tens or perhaps hundreds of thousand units.
I've just grabbed my pair (admittedly not a particularly high spec) of insulated terminal crimpers to examine.
The plier type you first mentioned is basically 2 stamped steel plates, a rivet, and two plastic handle covers. A grand total of 5 parts.
This ratchet crimper (similar, but not identical to this one) has TEN (2 different shapes) stampings just for the crimp dies. Some designs have a pair of castings or forgings - but that is probably a higher tooling cost up-front. Some allow the dies to be swapped, allowing the use of one frame for multiple terminal types.
Then the frame has another eight stampings, plus a couple more for the ratchet assembly, plus (I think) twenty seven pins, screws, rivets, circlips. A couple of springs. ... And a couple of plastic handles.
So a total of 12 different stamped parts in a total of about 51 parts (and the one I've linked to above will have a couple more with being adjustable).
TEN times as many parts, made to tighter tolerances, IMO a bargain at the price they charge for it.

BTW, I don't have a lot of the tools others here do. I only do electrics as a "hobby", so I simply don't have the volume of work to justify the expenditure for many of them. For example, I don't have a PAT tester - I couldn't justify the cost, and will spend a little longer doing it the long way round using my MFT.
Many of the tools I do have, such as the MFT, I've picked up when I've seen bargains - IIRC the MFT was from a batch going cheap on eBay from a hire/testing house, presumably when they were upgrading their in-service stuff. It's not the best or fastest - but then I can afford to take a little longer on the low volume of work I do. Some tools I've made, some tools my late father made.

Can you break down costs to material, labour... of how much you think it can cost?

 

[Pete999]

No, I soldered wires directly to the terminals of speakers.
Why would I use ferrule for soldering two wires if I can solder them by connecting?
[automerge]1591019129[/automerge]

Can you break down costs to material, labour... of how much you think it can cost?

So why have we been discussing crimping tools?

 

[Pennywise]

So why have we been discussing crimping tools?

I thought we were talking about speakers ?

 

[Pete999]

I thought we were talking about speakers ?

Judging by the number of replies and the title of this thread I will disagree with your reply Mate in all honesty it seems as though you are taking the Wee a bit in your reply, that, will teach me to try and be helpful won't it? maybe just stay out of this thread.
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I thought we were talking about speakers ?

Speak for your self Mate. Maybe read the title before you post stupid replies.

 

[Pennywise]

Judging by the number of replies and the title of this thread I will disagree with your reply Mate in all honesty it seems as though you are taking the Wee a bit in your reply, that, will teach me to try and be helpful won't it? maybe just stay out of this thread.

Of course i was taking the pee but not you directly even if you were quoted , thought we were just joshing around, the thread was basically over in the first page or as soon as he said he'd soldered it, i have no idea why it's run to almost 100 posts but its most entertaining.

 

[Pete999]

Of course i was taking the pee but not you directly even if you were quoted , thought we were just joshing around, the thread was basically over in the first page or as soon as he said he'd soldered it, i have no idea why it's run to almost 100 posts but its most entertaining.

No me neither, no offence?

 

[pirate]

R&D have to be paid for. A smart set of crimpers may cost £20 to make, but may have cost thousands in development and testing and obtaining type approval etc.
I'm not an electrician, but when i do a job of which I consider myself capable, I like to use the correct tools. That way, the job is done properly, and there is no comeback for using poor practices, and those are important to me. I have 3 sets of crimpers, i use them occasionally, but I always know i have the right set for the job. The cost is outweighed by the confidence of a proper job.
similarly, I always have my PA Tester calibrated every year, whether i have tested 100 items or 1000. Why? Because then I know it is working correctly, and I can demonstrate that I have taken all reasonably steps.
I accept the OPs point that spending money on something he may seldom use is maybe an expensive way of doing a job, especially a one-off simple job, but then why baulk at paying someone to do it for you? Speaker cables are not particularly risky, but the cost of many sound systems and their accessories, especially speakers, can represent a large investment. if it's so important to have perfect connections (I doubt that) then the choice is clear.

 

[Elecmox]

R&D have to be paid for. A smart set of crimpers may cost £20 to make, but may have cost thousands in development and testing and obtaining type approval etc.
I'm not an electrician, but when i do a job of which I consider myself capable, I like to use the correct tools. That way, the job is done properly, and there is no comeback for using poor practices, and those are important to me. I have 3 sets of crimpers, i use them occasionally, but I always know i have the right set for the job. The cost is outweighed by the confidence of a proper job.
similarly, I always have my PA Tester calibrated every year, whether i have tested 100 items or 1000. Why? Because then I know it is working correctly, and I can demonstrate that I have taken all reasonably steps.
I accept the OPs point that spending money on something he may seldom use is maybe an expensive way of doing a job, especially a one-off simple job, but then why baulk at paying someone to do it for you? Speaker cables are not particularly risky, but the cost of many sound systems and their accessories, especially speakers, can represent a large investment. if it's so important to have perfect connections (I doubt that) then the choice is clear.

What R&D!? That aint space ship tool for astronauts to crimp wires in outer space to be researched for a year!
Is it hard to admit that I am right that this stupid plier thing is ripp off?
If you really think it's not then I am sorry that they are ripping you off without you being aware of it, no ofense.

 

[davesparks]

What R&D!? That aint space ship tool for astronauts to crimp wires in outer space to be researched for a year!
Is it hard to admit that I am right that this stupid plier thing is ripp off?
If you really think it's not then I am sorry that they are ripping you off without you being aware of it, no ofense.

If you were right then it would be easy to admit, but you are not right.
A good quality crimper is not a rip off, it is an investment for any tradesman who will be using it for many many years.

 

[Elecmox]

If you were right then it would be easy to admit, but you are not right.
A good quality crimper is not a rip off, it is an investment for any tradesman who will be using it for many many years.

That's the logic of manufacturer, because they know you think about it that way and they put ridicolous price for it, I guarantee that real cost of such pliers is not more then 10 euros.

 

[PEG]

The OP is going to explode,when they find out i spent £600 on a set of hydraulic crimps,for one type of lug...i very rarely use...explode,i tell you...

 

[Elecmox]

The OP is going to explode,when they find out i spent £600 on a set of hydraulic crimps,for one type of lug...i very rarely use...explode,i tell you...

You are out of your mind
What is that set?

 

[Timbo]

Yes, but Ferrari is not worth it also.

Neither is a Reliant Robin......

 

[pirate]

Elecmox, no offense taken, I assure you.
We'll just have to agree to disagree,and both be happy!

 

[Elecmox]

Neither is a Reliant Robin......

It's more worth for the price you paid then you would pay for Ferrari.
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Elecmox, no offense taken, I assure you.
We'll just have to agree to disagree,and both be happy!

Or you can agree to not disagree, it's your choice.

 

[pirate]

Is this thread still running?
Is there still a sale on at DFS?

 

[Moley]

Isn't there always a sale on at DFS? In your case shouldn't it be a sail?

 

[DPG]

He's like a dog with a bone. A cheaply priced bone obviously.