Dealings with NEICIC..?

[LukeD]

Wow..... Ive always had my doubt about these private schemes and their reluctance to do anything other than take fees. But from yesterdays communications with them /I really question how thinks can be so badly run in this country ? Its like trying to deal with idiots ! They have to be helped through any details and seem to have zero logic when it comes to dealing with Fraudulent EICR "passes"

 

[newfutile]

Maybe you could elaborate on what the issue is ?

 

[rewireIT]

The state of the electrical industry in this country is indeed unlike anything i've seen in any other western country. From the governance to the regulation to the way we do things to the accessories we use. It's dreadful.

 

[nicebutdim]

True. Training leaves a lot to be desired, which is where a lot of other issues stem from. People blagging their way through life, without a care for the mess left behind.

 

[Dustydazzler]

The whole industry needs a shake up , but all the while the Scams are selling yearly subs and making money Nothing will Change

i reckon I spend 3 days out of working week putting right absolute Rubbish work and re-doing completely bogus EICRs etc

Rubbish electrical installations literally Pays my Mortgage so I shouldn't really complain about the Sh!t state of the industry but I do wish it would get better..... But it won't

 

[rewireIT]

The whole industry needs a shake up , but all the while the Scams are selling yearly subs and making money

I saw an interesting comment somewhere - someone said why is the assessment yearly? Once they've assessed you as competent the first year, then you're competent, no? Your competence can't suddenly vanish on year 2 so why the yearly assessment?

All a money making scam.

 

[ipf]

The state of the electrical industry in this country is indeed unlike anything i've seen in any other western country. From the governance to the regulation to the way we do things to the accessories we use. It's dreadful.

I don't know about other countries, I just see the downward spiral created by the need for greed, here.
I've been on about the crap on here since 2010, one of my main reasons for joining. How things change.
The NIC has changed big time in the last 20 years, not least due to a certain E Clancy.
Everybody's equal on a forum, though.....hence anything controversial, or upsetting others, being treated as poison....be it fact or fiction.
It seems we've just grown to live with things, in more than one instance.

 

[rewireIT]

I don't know about other countries, I just see the downward spiral created by the need for greed, here.
I've been on about the crap on here since 2010, one of my main reasons for joining. How things change.
The NIC has changed big time in the last 20 years, not least due to a certain E Clancy.
Everybody's equal on a forum, though.....hence anything controversial, or upsetting others, being treated as poison....be it fact or fiction.
It seems we've just grown to live with things, in more than one instance.

Imo everyone should have told them to do one when the Part P scam first came out.

Instead those who were compliant with stupid rules just now claim that you're some sort of scumbag if you don't sign up.

What are the qualifications for if you can't even sign off a radial circuit as safe once you've got them? I work with lads who can wire up massive section boards and all the corresponding circuits, and do the testing, and yet can't sign off a new 16a breaker in a single phase board as safe unless they pay some company.

It's an utter joke and as far as i'm aware only happens here.

 

[nicebutdim]

From posts above I can't help wondering if schemes or Part P is the big issue for those primarily working in the domestic sector? Perhaps one is as big a pain as the other.

Part P doesn't exist in these parts and I don't see a worse standard of work here than appears to exist in England & Wales. Oddly enough convention is probably the greatest regulator over here, with the vast majority of new work adhering to accepted practices. That's not to say we don't have our fair share of shoddy work, but that there are some standards that pretty much everyone works to.

The annual inspection should probably be viewed in terms of companies, rather than individuals. As employees come and go, it makes sense that standards would be checked at set intervals. I'm not sure if schemes other than NIC operate over here, but I'm yet to see anyone registered with another scheme and NIC Approved Contractor status is often included in terms for work put out to tender.

 

[davesparks]

What are the qualifications for if you can't even sign off a radial circuit as safe once you've got them?

You can, all you need is to be qualified and competent (except if you wish to self certify for part P, but that is seperate to BS7671)

I work with lads who can wire up massive section boards and all the corresponding circuits, and do the testing, and yet can't sign off a new 16a breaker in a single phase board as safe unless they pay some company.

What is preventing them from signing it off?

 

[rewireIT]

You can, all you need is to be qualified and competent (except if you wish to self certify for part P, but that is seperate to BS7671)


What is preventing them from signing it off?

I'm obviously talking about notifying notifiable work.

 

[ipf]

What are the qualifications for if you can't even sign off a radial circuit as safe once you've got them? I work with lads who can wire up massive section boards and all the corresponding circuits, and do the testing, and yet can't sign off a new 16a breaker in a single phase board as safe unless they pay some company.

I agree with a great deal of what you're saying. In the domestic game it's become a 'cover up' for inadequacies in the trade as well as a cash cow. Trouble is, it's becoming more and more apparent in the commercial and industrial fields.
But..before all the Part P/Cash cow days, the NICEIC was greatly respected.....and rightly so. Domestic was, and still should be, just one string of a good electricians bow.
I was sorting out a complex machine fault yesterday but a hell of a lot of today's
sparks wouldn't know the difference between star and delta.

 

[rewireIT]

I agree with a great deal of what you're saying. In the domestic game it's become a 'cover up' for inadequacies in the trade as well as a cash cow. Trouble is, it's becoming more and more apparent in the commercial and industrial fields.
But..before all the Part P/Cash cow days, the NICEIC was greatly respected.....and rightly so. Domestic was, and still should be, just part of a good electricians bow.
I was sorting out a complex machine fault yesterday but a hell of a lot of today's
sparks wouldn't know the difference between star and delta.

I just think everything needs an overhaul.

Make training very accessible but only let those who have trained touch ANY electrics. No 'you can do non notifiable work', no mushy wording open to interpretation like 'competent'.

You get X Y Z before you can touch electrics. You then get your testing and inspection before you can sign it off as safe.

BUT when you do get those, you should be able to certify any work without paying for it.

 

[westward10]

When Part P was in the mixing pot stage there was an understanding this would be governed by a single body but this never came to fruition. The NICEIC was at the forefront of the Domestic Installer Scheme and actively promoted this by way of the short course route, something they are now backtracking on but the damage is done. As @ipf has already stated they were respected and along with the ECA were the industry standard but through their own greed and blindness to what they were doing have turned all scheme providers into an industry joke with them being at the top of the ridicule list.

 

[rewireIT]

When Part P was in the mixing pot stage there was an understanding this would be governed by a single body but this never came to fruition. The NICEIC was at the forefront of the Domestic Installer Scheme and actively promoted this by way of the short course route, something they are now backtracking on but the damage is done. As @ipf has already stated they were respected and along with the ECA were the industry standard but through their own greed and blindness to what they were doing have turned all scheme providers into an industry joke with them being at the top of the ridicule list.

But the real problem is you're forced to go along with their joke if you want to do any work for domestic clients. Of course some people do the work without notifying but it's definitely a grey area.

Personally i have zero problem with people doing the work and not notifying, it's all just a paperwork nonsense anyway that has zero bearing on the quality and standard of the installation, although this is potentially opening up a contentious issue to i will stop here.

 

[ipf]

I just think everything needs an overhaul.

Make training very accessible but only let those who have trained touch ANY electrics. No 'you can do non notifiable work', no mushy wording open to interpretation like 'competent'.

So how are you going to stop DIY work?
It's always been there, it's a fact.
You're going to shut all the sheds down, eh?
'Competent' is important but maybe NOT in the trade.
If someone isn't competent they shouldn't do the job.......but they do......no shock, no fire, so who's bothered?.......until!!!!!!!!

 

[rewireIT]

So how are you going to stop DIY work?
It's always been there, it's a fact.
You're going to shut all the sheds down, eh?
'Competent' is important but maybe NOT in the trade.
If someone isn't competent they shouldn't do the job.......but they do......no shock, no fire, so who's bothered?.......until!!!!!!!!

You can't stop DIY work, but what i mean is the whole industry as it's set up for professionals should be changed.

It's all too vague and abstract and ambiguous. If you allow only people who are properly qualified to join a proper list, which is free but regulated by the government/some respected body, then people will know 100% that you're not actually fully qualified to do the job if you're not on it. It would be insanely simple to set up. Have a list for those who are qualified, safe installers who have an NVQ and their AM2, and have a separate list for those who have the NVQ and AM2 and ALSO have their 2391. If you've not got your 2391 you have to employ someone else to do your testing at the end of the job, by law.

But what did they do instead? Introduced some new garbage domestic only qualification which on the face of it only allows you to work in domestic but in reality there's no rule stopping anyone taking on commercial work. Further muddying the waters, dividing the qualifications and making a massive load of spaghetti for potential trainees to wade through.

Clear path, and the ability to actually sign off any work after achieving qualifications which prove you know what you're doing, is what should be brought in.

 

[ipf]

As @ipf has already stated they were respected and along with the ECAoness to what they were doing have turned all scheme providers into an industry joke with them being at the top of the ridicule list.

Supposedly run by a charity.
How long now since Damien S had his run in with the wicked witch?

 

[nicebutdim]

When Part P was in the mixing pot stage there was an understanding this would be governed by a single body but this never came to fruition. The NICEIC was at the forefront of the Domestic Installer Scheme and actively promoted this by way of the short course route, something they are now backtracking on but the damage is done. As @ipf has already stated they were respected and along with the ECA were the industry standard but through their own greed and blindness to what they were doing have turned all scheme providers into an industry joke with them being at the top of the ridicule list.

Just dug out and checked an article that I read last week in a local electrical magazine, regarding experienced worker assessments.

This crowd are now offering separate assessments for domestic electricians and installation electricians, so it would appear as though little has been learnt. The domestic assessment now culminates in a new 'AM2ED' assessment.

Experienced Worker Assessment – TESP

www.electrical-ewa.org.uk

Edit: From their website - "The EWA was developed by an industry group comprising ECA, JIB, NET, Unite, Certsure, ECS, NAPIT, City and Guilds, EAL and the IET."

Interesting.

 

[FatAlan]

Classic example of of privatising a regulatory public safety / industry responsibility. Government abstains from taking responsibility for safety standards, hands over to a private company that is only interested in profit. Cue the political debate The professionals get ripped off & the public get poor or non existent safety regulation!