Dealings with NEICIC..?

[LukeD]

Wow..... Ive always had my doubt about these private schemes and their reluctance to do anything other than take fees. But from yesterdays communications with them /I really question how thinks can be so badly run in this country ? Its like trying to deal with idiots ! They have to be helped through any details and seem to have zero logic when it comes to dealing with Fraudulent EICR "passes"

 

[westward10]

Passing a multiple choice test on BS7671 is a long way off saying you have a good understanding of it.

 

[nicebutdim]

A point being missed about schemes is that membership is voluntary.

No one is required to join and therefore no one is required to undergo their annual assessments. Assessment is a condition of membership, to which members agree upon joining.

It seems like ancient history now, but the point of this thread was highlighting how difficult it is to convince schemes to take action against members who don't work to proscribed practices. I'm not sure how that ties into the argument for less oversight of members.

 

[nicebutdim]

Passing a multiple choice test on BS7671 is a long way off saying you have a good understanding of it.

It also doesn't ensure you keep up with subsequent amendments to regulations, of which there have been many since publication of the 18th edition.

 

[Cankeredlamentations]

Passing a multiple choice test on BS7671 is a long way off saying you have a good understanding of it.

very true, I have passed my 18th edition in January this year, I refer to the book to looks things up but I think I am years away from being able to memorise and quote reg numbers from the top of my head like the much more experienced sparks.

 

[7029 dave]

Just my two bob worth, IMO if that MP,s Daughter did not die of electrocution I dont think part pee would have been born. (in the domestic sector)
It could not be ignored so they jumped on the concept of notifiable work and periodic accreditation via cps all at a great cost. we have now to try and stamp out cowboy practices, core qualifications and experience/ competence is not enough.
However the bit I cant get my head round is the un notifiable work, electricity is electricity it can kill it has the same dangers as any other task regarding electrical installation work.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Just my two bob worth, IMO if that MP,s Daughter did not die of electrocution I dont think part pee would have been born. (in the domestic sector)
It could not be ignored so they jumped on the concept of notifiable work and periodic accreditation via cps all at a great cost. we have now to try and stamp out cowboy practices, core qualifications and experience/ competence is not enough.
However the bit I cant get my head round is the un notifiable work, electricity is electricity it can kill it has the same dangers as any other task regarding electrical installation work.

Not to mention they actuallt relaxed the non-notifiable jobs like Kitchens and Garden work...
Which seemed odd as these would be considered the areas which require better undertanding of the Regs than just adding a new radial to a loft socket for expample

 

[ipf]

It also doesn't ensure you keep up with subsequent amendments to regulations, of which there have been many since publication of the 18th edition.

Whilst upgrades and changes are always going to occur, there's no doubt that this is another reason for money making.... paid for, as a rule, by those like us who keep the trade going.

 

[rewireIT]

Passing a multiple choice test on BS7671 is a long way off saying you have a good understanding of it.

So we're saying the exam and qualification isn't fit for purpose? Why do we have to do it then?

 

[nicebutdim]

So we're saying the exam and qualification isn't fit for purpose? Why do we have to do it then?

Unless I've misread the comment, I believe the point was that 18th edition exam focus is on changes from previous edition and doesn't prove a substantial knowledge of BS7671.

 

[davesparks]

So we're saying the exam and qualification isn't fit for purpose? Why do we have to do it then?

The point of that course is to teach you how to use the regulations book to find the information you require.

 

[DPG]

So we're saying the exam and qualification isn't fit for purpose? Why do we have to do it then?

I suspect you are just looking for an argument. It's not Monty Python so I'm out.

 

[rewireIT]

The point of that course is to teach you how to use the regulations book to find the information you require.

The point of the exam is, and i quote City and Guilds; 'This qualification ensures that you are up-to-date with the latest industry regulation on wiring and the safe use and operation of electrical equipment and systems.'

In reality the exam is an exercise in searching the book but the qualification comes with a credential saying it means you know the regs.

So is it fit for purpose?

 

[rewireIT]

I suspect you are just looking for an argument.

Nah.

It's a very reasonable question - if 18th is supposed to mean you have a good grasp of the regs, but even with it we still need to pay to be tested by a scheme once per year to prove we know them, then is the 18th qualification fit for purpose? Or is it that they're simply money grabbing?

 

[nicebutdim]

Nah.

It's a very reasonable question - if 18th is supposed to mean you have a good grasp of the regs, but even with it we still need to pay to be tested by a scheme once per year to prove we know them, then is the 18th qualification fit for purpose? Or is it that they're simply money grabbing?

Do you really believe that a one hour, multiple choice exam could provide a good grasp of regulations that extend to some 600 pages?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Perhaps the 18th exam should be incorporated in with your Scam registration as an online Exam and come Free when you pay your Scam fee ?

 

[mainline]

Some have been in the game for 40 or more years and are still not up on the regs and have been having assessments for the last 15yrs or so.

 

[rewireIT]

Some have been in the game for 40 or more years and are still not up on the regs and have been having assessments for the last 15yrs or so.

When a scheme is full of people who did a 4 week course you know it's bobbins.

 

[timhoward]

if 18th is supposed to mean you have a good grasp of the regs, but even with it we still need to pay to be tested by a scheme once per year to prove we know them

I'm not particularly speaking in defence of the scams but the annual assessment checks you have insurance in place, have calibrated test equipment, have done some CPD, and checks your test results on at least one job from the last 12 months. There are sometimes some a couple of BS7671 questions too.
I don't agree with part P but it would be a lot worse if those in the schemes weren't checked at all in any way shape or form.

In any case there is a big difference between knowing what the regs require and routinely carrying out work to the standards required in them.
(I wouldn't ever say that I "know the regs", it's not as if I've done every kind of special location work, installed IT systems etc.)

When a scheme is full of people who did a 4 week course you know it's bobbins.

I don't take much notice of people's previous training, I've met entirely useless NVQ 3 sparks in equal measure. What matters is whether they go on learning and expanding their knowledge.

 

[westward10]

@timhoward took the words from my mouth. We all carry out our work and rarely consult BS7671 because we know the requirements for the tasks we routinely carry out but there are areas of it we just don't need to be concerned with, they don't play a part in our daily working lives. We do the 18th Ed and there will be questions applicable to these sections we just never consult, will I become conversant in them by getting a couple of questions correct, no.

 

[nicebutdim]

I don't take much notice of people's previous training, I've met entirely useless NVQ 3 sparks in equal measure. What matters is whether they go on learning and expanding their knowledge.

While I'm not particularly enamoured with the idea of a 6 week course that allows someone to call themselves a 'domestic installer', I can't help thinking of one particular member whose knowledge is vast and it is clear they simply used that course as a means of gaining a foothold in the industry.

I wish she had more time to post here.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Some have been in the game for 40 or more years and are still not up on the regs and have been having assessments for the last 15yrs or so.

Indeed...

I have worked with sparks of 35-40 years in the Trade who haven't got a Scooby Doo about the latest Regs and / Or how to test an Install or Use a MFT. Some of whom were Scam registered and I don't mean part Pee domestic Scam I mean I mean full Scam members and had been for decades. How they passed a yearly Scam assesment beggers belief