DNO Isolation For Changing DB

[Eugene Herbst]

Hi All,

I need to change a DB in a block of flats in central London (W2 postcode), where EDF can't give a date for at least 6 weeks to come and isolate the supply, but at the same time won't / can't give out a date after this, which makes no sense to me!
This is both options of just popping around and isolating until work is done or installing a smart meter with DP switchgear!
The supply is a standard 1361 Type II fuse, and i'm not too keen on cutting the tags!

Does anyone have alternative methods of isolating the supply so as to change the DB? Also what is the average cost nowadays for this?

TIA

 

[Vortigern]

EDF are an energy supplier you need to contact the DNO for the region you are in. You might get a better response. Ask them if you can do it yourself as well. Sometimes they are OK with that and even give you temporary seals. I do know a number of sparks carry their own seals. Not that I am suggesting anything untoward. Energy suppliers do not isolate the DNO equipment the DNO do, while the DNO do not touch the energy suppliers meters....usually. No absolute rules on this but that seems to be general etiquette/legal position.

Distribution Network Operator | UK Power Networks

UK Power Networks

www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk

 

[Dustydazzler]

I don’t think I have ever met or worked with a sparks who have waited for the supplier to remove the cutout fuse,

the only jobs where the supplier has been needed to come to site is to either move a meter or replace a busted head

 

[mattg4321]

It’ll be UKPN. Good luck dealing with them.

Seal fairy would no doubt be paying a visit if it were most people I know!

 

[GBDamo]

I don’t think I have ever met or worked with a sparks who have waited for the supplier to remove the cutout fuse,

the only jobs where the supplier has been needed to come to site is to either move a meter or replace a busted head

Had a chat with a DNO man about this and he was of the opinion that so long as nothing untoward happened they turn a blind eye.

I've got a service head change booked for Friday, will be installing an isolator while they're at it.

Quite looking forward to watching them.

The cable is a three phase PILC and they intend to do the change of head live by chopping the cable in the street, changing the head and the jointing the cable.

What could possibly go wrong ?

 

[Eugene Herbst]

EDF are an energy supplier you need to contact the DNO for the region you are in. You might get a better response. Ask them if you can do it yourself as well. Sometimes they are OK with that and even give you temporary seals. I do know a number of sparks carry their own seals. Not that I am suggesting anything untoward. Energy suppliers do not isolate the DNO equipment the DNO do, while the DNO do not touch the energy suppliers meters....usually. No absolute rules on this but that seems to be general etiquette/legal position.

Distribution Network Operator | UK Power Networks

UK Power Networks

www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk

Thank you Vortigern,
I tried UK Power Networks initially, but they said I need to arrange with EDF. They both seem to be extremely busy with this "new normal" and possibly playing off on each other, in my view!

 

[Vortigern]

arrange with EDF

Speak to the supervisor and raise a complaint if necessary. That is nonsense. DNO deal with cut-out, energy company deal with meter and ne'er the twain shall meet, except sometimes. Sometimes you do have to insist and persuade. Frankly I would do it myself unless the cut-out looks too old or dangerous. If it was a dodgy cut-out then you could force the DNO to action. You say a block of flats, am I to understand each flat has a cut-out? Or is there a cut-out for all the flats with a ryefield board or some other isolator at the source?

 

[Wilko]

If it’s any help - today I worked in a flat in an older block of 4, with 3 phases and 5 supplies taken. Fuse seals appear to have been left in the mess in the bottom of the cupboard...

 

[Eugene Herbst]

Speak to the supervisor and raise a complaint if necessary. That is nonsense. DNO deal with cut-out, energy company deal with meter and ne'er the twain shall meet, except sometimes. Sometimes you do have to insist and persuade. Frankly I would do it myself unless the cut-out looks too old or dangerous. If it was a dodgy cut-out then you could force the DNO to action. You say a block of flats, am I to understand each flat has a cut-out? Or is there a cut-out for all the flats with a ryefield board or some other isolator at the source?

It's an old converted block

Speak to the supervisor and raise a complaint if necessary. That is nonsense. DNO deal with cut-out, energy company deal with meter and ne'er the twain shall meet, except sometimes. Sometimes you do have to insist and persuade. Frankly I would do it myself unless the cut-out looks too old or dangerous. If it was a dodgy cut-out then you could force the DNO to action. You say a block of flats, am I to understand each flat has a cut-out? Or is there a cut-out for all the flats with a ryefield board or some other isolator at the source?

It's a converted block. 3-Phase feed to 3 singles for each flat. The blocks are in good shape, where one of them has the tag already cut, who's to say that the previous person didn't cut this one too

 

[Vortigern]

So how does each phase get to the flats? It can't be just tails there must be an isolator for each flat surely?

 

[Eugene Herbst]

So how does each phase get to the flats? It can't be just tails there must be an isolator for each flat surely?

Supply is in a communal alcove in the basement (under the pavement). 3-Phase in and about 1.5mtrs away split into 4no BS1361 Type II Fuses (Landlord, Flat 1,2,3), another 1mtr away is EDF meters before heading off to each flat. In each flat adjacent to the DB is a metal junction box before entering the DB.

 

[telectrix]

Supply is in a communal alcove in the basement (under the pavement). 3-Phase in and about 1.5mtrs away split into 4no BS1361 Type II Fuses (Landlord, Flat 1,2,3), another 1mtr away is EDF meters before heading off to each flat. In each flat adjacent to the DB is a metal junction box before entering the DB.

that may be your answer. disconnect at the metal JB. take usual precaution of switch ing off DB 1st.

 

[Grant1987]

So how does each phase get to the flats? It can't be just tails there must be an isolator for each flat surely?

Yes there must be isolator for each flat no doubt about that.

 

[Vortigern]

So the three phase in cut-out must have it's own fuses and the 4 fuses you talk about can surely be the isolation point, oh for a photo.

 

[Grant1987]

Yes there must be isolator for each flat no doubt about that.

Usually 16mm twin and earth pvc with supplementary earth run with with it.
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Yes there must be isolator for each flat no doubt about that.

Usually 16mm twin and earth pvc with supplementary earth run with with it I’d hope.

 

[Cbuk2k2]

I don’t think I have ever met or worked with a sparks who have waited for the supplier to remove the cutout fuse,

the only jobs where the supplier has been needed to come to site is to either move a meter or replace a busted head

I hope your not implying that people cut the sacred seals on DNO cut outs ??
[automerge]1597102316[/automerge]

Hi All,

I need to change a DB in a block of flats in central London (W2 postcode), where EDF can't give a date for at least 6 weeks to come and isolate the supply, but at the same time won't / can't give out a date after this, which makes no sense to me!
This is both options of just popping around and isolating until work is done or installing a smart meter with DP switchgear!
The supply is a standard 1361 Type II fuse, and i'm not too keen on cutting the tags!

Does anyone have alternative methods of isolating the supply so as to change the DB? Also what is the average cost nowadays for this?

TIA

You’ll find a list of DNO’s here

Energy terms explained

Definitions for general terms used on this website.

www.ofgem.gov.uk

These are the people you need to contact and not your energy supplier.

It’s becoming increasingly common for DNOs to have approved contractors who can install isolators for a small fee (it’s about £60 but will probably next £1000’s in London).

 

[davesparks]

Supply is in a communal alcove in the basement (under the pavement). 3-Phase in and about 1.5mtrs away split into 4no BS1361 Type II Fuses (Landlord, Flat 1,2,3), another 1mtr away is EDF meters before heading off to each flat. In each flat adjacent to the DB is a metal junction box before entering the DB.

Is there not any OCPD installed after the meter to protect the cable running to the flat?

What type of cable is running to the flat and how is it installed?

 

[Grant1987]

Is there not any OCPD installed after the meter to protect the cable running to the flat?

What type of cable is running to the flat and how is it installed?

Most definitely not if it’s the older flats then there will be a BS 5419 isolator so many permutations with this type of install, need a lot more detail to help the guy out

 

[davesparks]

Most definitely not if it’s the older flats then there will be a BS 5419 isolator so many permutations with this type of install, need a lot more detail to help the guy out

Why do you say most definately not?

 

[Dustydazzler]

cbuk2k2 , I would never advocate removing the seals

likwise would not advocate buying a big pack of meter seals off eBay for 4.99 so to redo Z removed seals so it looks like the fairy never came

(you can even buy genuine seals and re-sealing tool off x meter fitters off eBay)