UK Do I need to update my 18th edition for Amendment 2 ?

[Ventricular Fibrillation]

Got my 18th Ed certificate late last year, now doing 2391. Obviously Amendment 2 has come out since then, and I see these courses available to update your 18th accordingly.
But at what point would this be needed? I assume it's not a legal requirement. If I got my 2391 and NVQ in the next year and applied for a gold card, would my 18th cert be classed as not current unless I update it? Thanks.

 

[loz2754]

As we as competent electrician must always work to the current standard, then yes, we all should at, some point, sit the exam for the 2nd Amendment. This is particularly true for those enrolled in a scheme such as the NICEIC, who will no doubt make it a requirement for membership.
Amendment 1 will be withdrawn from Sept 27 2022, and whether or not we sit the exam for Amendment 2, we will have to work to Amendment 2. Which means we'll have to know what the changes are.

 

[GDF144]

do you have to get the new book for each amendment or is there a cheaper way? Already pay enough for approved contractor membership to then be buying new books and exam whenever a new amendment comes out

 

[swaRRR]

As we as competent electrician must always work to the current standard, then yes, we all should at, some point, sit the exam for the 2nd Amendment. This is particularly true for those enrolled in a scheme such as the NICEIC, who will no doubt make it a requirement for membership.
Amendment 1 will be withdrawn from Sept 27 2022, and whether or not we sit the exam for Amendment 2, we will have to work to Amendment 2. Which means we'll have to know what the changes are.

True but that doesn't mean you have to take an exam to be able to work to it.

 

[Brian Taylor]

As we as competent electrician must always work to the current standard, then yes, we all should at, some point, sit the exam for the 2nd Amendment. This is particularly true for those enrolled in a scheme such as the NICEIC, who will no doubt make it a requirement for membership.
Amendment 1 will be withdrawn from Sept 27 2022, and whether or not we sit the exam for Amendment 2, we will have to work to Amendment 2. Which means we'll have to know what the changes are.

 

[Rapskallion]

As a form of demonstration that you are conversant with the new regulations have you looked at Continuing Professional Development (CPD) offed by the mentioned accreditation body free of charge to their members, where you watch a series of online content and at the end you print out a certificate as evidence of completion, these are marked in hours and are a recognised form of training.
keep them with your other important documents.

 

[Brian Taylor]

As we as competent electrician must always work to the current standard, then yes, we all should at, some point, sit the exam for the 2nd Amendment. This is particularly true for those enrolled in a scheme such as the NICEIC, who will no doubt make it a requirement for membership.
Amendment 1 will be withdrawn from Sept 27 2022, and whether or not we sit the exam for Amendment 2, we will have to work to Amendment 2. Which means we'll have to know what the changes are.

Can you please advise....I have not sat any update courses since I did my 17th edition many years ago....I have been informed that I tight be a good idea to think about doing the new 18th edition course now...can anyone tell me what's involved as I don't want to get into anything too heavy (or expensive) if its not absolutely necessary

 

[Rapskallion]

Can you please advise....I have not sat any update courses since I did my 17th edition many years ago....I have been informed that I tight be a good idea to think about doing the new 18th edition course now...can anyone tell me what's involved as I don't want to get into anything too heavy (or expensive) if its not absolutely necessary

Full 18th edition courses which include AMD2 which there are a multitude of training providers set you back around the £500 mark inc Vat and will take up 3 days of your time. discount can be gained from accredited members I'm sure.

 

[DPG]

Can you please advise....I have not sat any update courses since I did my 17th edition many years ago....I have been informed that I tight be a good idea to think about doing the new 18th edition course now...can anyone tell me what's involved as I don't want to get into anything too heavy (or expensive) if its not absolutely necessary

But surely a good electrician should keep up to date with new versions of the regs.

 

[Brian Taylor]

Full 18th edition courses which include AMD2 which there are a multitude of training providers set you back around the £500 mark inc Vat and will take up 3 days of your time. discount can be gained from accredited members I'm sure.

Wow was hoping for maybe 70 to 80 and half a day.....seems a lot of money...Will have to leave that until next year.

 

[Brian Taylor]

But surely a good electrician should keep up to date with new versions of the regs.

Well In an ideal world yes but not many of us can continuously shell out money on updates...I don't mind doing it say every 10 years or so ..but the frequency that these new requirements seem to be dreamt up staggers believe at the moment.

 

[DPG]

Well In an ideal world yes but not many of us can continuously shell out money on updates...I don't mind doing it say every 10 years or so ..but the frequency that these new requirements seem to be dreamt up staggers believe at the moment.

You're only willing to do a course every 10 years? Really?

You can't really complain about the cost of the 18th course if you haven't done any CPD or courses since the 17th regs in about 2008. That's nearly 15 years!

 

[Brian Taylor]

As a form of demonstration that you are conversant with the new regulations have you looked at Continuing Professional Development (CPD) offed by the mentioned accreditation body free of charge to their members, where you watch a series of online content and at the end you print out a certificate as evidence of completion, these are marked in hours and are a recognised form of training.
keep them with your other important documents.

I've never known of this requirement for continuous professional development....where is all this information?

 

[DPG]

I've never known of this requirement for continuous professional development....where is all this information?

Which scheme are you registered with out of interest?

 

[Brian Taylor]

Which scheme are you registered with out of interest?

Did my courses through City and Guilds

 

[DPG]

Did my courses through City and Guilds

I was meaning NICEIC, Stroma etc.

 

[Brian Taylor]

I was meaning NICEIC, Stroma etc.

No I don't know anything about those courses ...but I've been advised to stay away from the NICEIC as that one is an extortionate expense.

 

[DPG]

No I don't know anything about those courses ...but I've been advised to stay away from the NICEIC as that one is an extortionate expense.

They aren't courses, they are schemes which you become a member of.

How do you notify jobs currently?

 

[Brian Taylor]

They aren't courses, they are schemes which you become a member of.

How do you notify jobs currently?

This all new to me.....what do you mean notify jobs ....obviously I notify the customer that I've finished the job when I invoice them

 

[DPG]

This all new to me.....what do you mean notify jobs ....obviously I notify the customer that I've finished the job when I invoice them

I was thinking more like new circuits or consumer units? Do you do that sort of work?

 

[Brian Taylor]

I was thinking more like new circuits or consumer units? Do you do that sort of work?

Yes very much so .

 

[Rapskallion]

I've never known of this requirement for continuous professional development....where is all this information?

it is not a requirement, its for continued professional development. gaining more understanding of the trade you are practicing, helping to navigate and understand the regulations that all of us in the trade need to abide by to ensure our work is compliant.

 

[DPG]

Yes very much so .

How do you comply with part P currently? Via scheme or building control?

 

[Brian Taylor]

How do you comply with part P currently? Via scheme or building control?

Sorry I'm not quite understanding what you're asking ...what had electrical work got to do with building control....I'm not knocking anything down or building anything.

 

[Brian Taylor]

it is not a requirement, its for continued professional development. gaining more understanding of the trade you are practicing, helping to navigate and understand the regulations that all of us in the trade need to abide by to ensure our work is compliant.

So where do I get all this information?

 

[Rapskallion]

So where do I get all this information?

From your Scheme provider.

 

[Brian Taylor]

From your Scheme provider.

What scheme provider.....not understanding what this is

 

[DPG]

What scheme provider.....not understanding what this is

As I mentioned before, who are you signed up with? NICEIC, etc. How do you handle the notifiable jobs?

 

[Brian Taylor]

As I mentioned before, who are you signed up with? NICEIC, etc. How do you handle the notifiable jobs?

I'm not signed up with anyone...should I be?

 

[DPG]

I'm not signed up with anyone...should I be?

I'm guessing you may not be up to date with requirements as far as notifiable jobs and Part P are concerned. I would have a Google search - easier than me trying to explain and thus confusing things!

 

[Brian Taylor]

I'm guessing you may not be up to date with requirements as far as notifiable jobs and Part P are concerned. I would have a Google search - easier than me trying to explain and thus confusing things!

Yes you're correct I am very confused....I suspect you may be a good deal higher on the electrical job scale than me and thus require these new qualifications...but thankyou for your help and advice

 

[DPG]

Yes you're correct I am very confused....I suspect you may be a good deal higher on the electrical job scale than me and thus require these new qualifications...but thankyou for your help and advice

Part P and the schemes aren't qualifications. Part P is something that electricians have to comply with, and the schemes (NICEIC etc) provide notification services that assist with this.

Of course you can notify building control each time you need to, but some councils charge a fortune.

 

[default]

I'm not signed up with anyone...should I be?

Are you new to domestic work, ie, where you commercial or industrial for a long time. Part P has been a thing for a long time and you need it in domestic work, unless all you do is change bedroom lights. If a client or employer has an issue and takes you to court you won't have a leg to stand on no matter how good the install and testing is.

 

[Lister1987]

Yes you're correct I am very confused....I suspect you may be a good deal higher on the electrical job scale than me and thus require these new qualifications...but thankyou for your help and advice

Part P of Building Regulations 2010 relates to electrical safety and, amount other things requires that certain tasks are 'notified' to Building Control (LABC), this is meant to serve as an oversight and gives them the ability to check the work is to the required standard.

Scheme providers such as NICEIC & NAPIT have systems in place whereby they will handle that notification for you, for a nominal fee.

You can read more on Part P here; Electrical safety: Approved Document P - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-approved-document-p

 

[Brian Taylor]

Part P and the schemes aren't qualifications. Part P is something that electricians have to comply with, and the schemes (NICEIC etc) provide notification services that assist with this.

Of course you can notify building control each time you need to, but some councils charge a fortune.

Yes I'm sure they do....but as I don't notify anyone ...whatever that means it shouldn't cost me anything.....this has never been a problem before for me in all the years of doing electrical jobs. I must admit from what you've said that this could open a very large can of worms for some electricians.

 

[Lister1987]

You can find more information about Building Regulations here; Building regulation - GOV.UK - https://www.gov.uk/housing-local-and-community/building-regulation

 

[Brian Taylor]

Are you new to domestic work, ie, where you commercial or industrial for a long time. Part P has been a thing for a long time and you need it in domestic work, unless all you do is change bedroom lights. If a client or employer has an issue and takes you to court you won't have a leg to stand on no matter how good the install and testing is.

Been doing it for about 40 years now...not sure why I should be taken to court over anything....what would anyone gain from that?

 

[DPG]

Yes I'm sure they do....but as I don't notify anyone ...whatever that means it shouldn't cost me anything.....this has never been a problem before for me in all the years of doing electrical jobs. I must admit from what you've said that this could open a very large can of worms for some electricians.

Just so I'm clear, you've been doing electrical work, including new circuits and consumer units, for years without notifying anybody?

Why do you think it 'shouldn't cost you anything' ?

It seems a bit dodgy that you don't want to pay money to notify work, and you don't want to pay money to take courses.

Presumably you do issues EICs and MW certs for the work though?

 

[Lister1987]

Yes I'm sure they do....but as I don't notify anyone ...whatever that means it shouldn't cost me anything.....this has never been a problem before for me in all the years of doing electrical jobs. I must admit from what you've said that this could open a very large can of worms for some electricians me.

Fixed that for you squire.

 

[Brian Taylor]

Just so I'm clear, you've been doing electrical work, including new circuits and consumer units, for years without notifying anybody?

Why do you think it 'shouldn't cost you anything' ?

It seems a bit dodgy that you don't want to pay money to notify work, and you don't want to pay money to take courses.

No just didn't know about the new requirements...as far as I'm aware I've got my C&G certificate that says I'm an electrician..so no problem as far as I can see...
Many be I'm incorrect in that thinking

 

[DPG]

No just didn't know about the new requirements...as far as I'm aware I've got my C&G certificate that says I'm an electrician..so no problem as far as I can see...
Many be I'm incorrect in that thinking

Do you issue EICs and MW certs though?

 

[Rapskallion]

Find it very hard to believe that somebody with 40 years electrical experience is oblivious about anything to do with Part P and notifying domestic works, unless of course you are just an employee and your employer takes care of all this
but i hope you find the information you are looking for, all the best.

 

[Brian Taylor]

Fixed that for you squire.

No I was correct in my first statement...as far as I know non of the electricians that I know are aware of these requirements

 

[default]

Been doing it for about 40 years now...not sure why I should be taken to court over anything....what would anyone gain from that

Been doing it for about 40 years now...not sure why I should be taken to court over anything....what would anyone gain from that?

I mean if something went wrong, not saying it would. If I had work done then got a bad shock or my kids did and then found out your not registered to any governing body I'd take you for all you've got. These schemes are there to protect you. And if you haven't updated your knowledge in 40 years God knows what your doing.

 

[DPG]

This thread is a bit scary. I don't intend being rude but I really think you should check what the requirements of an electrician are. It's in your own interests to be honest.

 

[Brian Taylor]

Do you issue EICs and MW certs though?

Well I guess like most I purchase pads of certificates from the wholesalers

 

[DPG]

Well I guess like most I purchase pads of certificates from the wholesalers

Yep fair enough, just wondered.

 

[Brian Taylor]

I mean if something went wrong, not saying it would. If I had work done then got a bad shock or my kids did and then found out your not registered to any governing body I'd take you for all you've got. These schemes are there to protect you. And if you haven't updated your knowledge in 40 years God knows what your doing.

But surely if its not mandatory to belong to one of these organisation hiw can I be prosecuted?...in addition I carry insurance ..the problem would be theirs

 

[DPG]

But surely if its not mandatory to belong to one of these organisation hiw can I be prosecuted?...in addition I carry insurance ..the problem would be theirs

Do you make sure the customer notifies the work by any chance?

 

[Brian Taylor]

Do you make sure the customer notifies the work by any chance?

No but I wouldn't have as I have no knowledge of the requirements