Dodgy EICR (Consumer)

[Rutger]

Another shambolic and atrocious EICR, I'm afraid that around 70% of the ones I see these days are of a similar standard, it seems a popular tactic to invent as many C2s as possible which can all be cured by a new CU, of course the made up test results will just be transferred to the EIC saving time and increasing profits at the same time. Although one recent 'post EICR' quote sent to me for comments for an 8 way RCBO board and replacement bathroom light also included supply of a Minor Works cert upon completion ?! And all for the bargain price of £850 + VAT. ? This was from a NA### member firm, but anyway I've got the job now, it'll be done right for a lot less than £1020 !!

You're not based in London are you? Which electrician did you use in the end? And how did you find him? I could do with a fair electrician to fit a rcbo consumer unit and bring my flat to an eicr pass. I ve been variously quoted £750 inc and £650ex vat including an eicr test. The quotes were based on prior vis inspections. Are these prices unreasonable. They seem quite expensive to me.

 

[littlespark]

You're not based in London are you? Which electrician did you use in the end? And how did you find him? I could do with a fair electrician to fit a rcbo consumer unit and bring my flat to an eicr pass. I ve been variously quoted £750 inc and £650ex vat including an eicr test. The quotes were based on prior vis inspections. Are these prices unreasonable. They seem quite expensive to me.

For London, and what’s been said before, that’s not bad. A portion of that quote will be materials, so at the aforementioned £88 per hour, he’s maybe falling short on the number of hours he’s going to take.

 

[Rutger]

For London, and what’s been said before, that’s not bad. A portion of that quote will be materials, so at the aforementioned £88 per hour, he’s maybe falling short on the number of hours he’s going to take

Well i stand informed :-/, thankyou.
There are 2 different electricians, both of which are experienced and i feel, competent, although one speaks in technical gobbledegook and " doesn't have time to educate me".
I'm trying negotiate with the 2nd buts hes avoiding me. I guess he reckons time will pressure me into accepting his orig quote.

I estimate materials metal cons unit ~£50, rcbo and fuses £5x10 (seen online). Call it £150inc vat + getting it The rest is labour. So that works out at £66/ circuit to unscrew a cable from one unit and screw into another, test their and say 12 sockets continuity, mark up a form, email it to me.

The problem.with the fellow's quote is what i want it a clear EICR form in my hand, that is one done with necessary corrections. We both expect any extra work if any to be minor, but you never know. His quote is to fit the consumer unit and do the test. That is if he id any additional problems on the form it goes and an estate agent will want it corrected and restested, according circulating rumours.

As hes not communicating now, i'm left in a difficult. Accept and leave myself open to ransom. Refuse and potentially go through similar with another electrician.

Its seems theres no standard of practice. Thats not to say either of electricians who've quoted are dodgy. But i the punter am having to go through a system of what ought to fundamentals in supply if a service, but are turning into sticking points. Perhaps there should be a common standard of customer service, overseen by BEIS or the Dept for Energy. That is:

prices quoted should include to completion of work incl fixes for id'd and additional small newly id'd problems.

Work should be conducted so that a premis/ property is left in an condition another competent electrician would find no faults.

In the event any fault is identified in a persons work or paperwork, he will fix it with 2 weeks of being notified, unless dangerous in which case within 1 day.

Additional there shd be a guidance chart automatically updated to average unit cost / materials across a number of common suppliers( computers can do this these days)

And by constituency:
Average length of job
Average labour rate
Average call out charge

These figures wouldn't regulate down the prices, but by visibility would allow customers to know when they're being scr'd or when they're simply facing the going rate, no matter uncomfortable it is ;-)

 

[SJD]

I estimate materials metal cons unit ~£50, rcbo and fuses £5x10 (seen online). Call it £150inc vat + getting it The rest is labour. So that works out at £66/ circuit to unscrew a cable from one unit and screw into another, test the continuity, mark up a form, email it to me.

Materials costs depend on manufacturer, and I can assure you they are not all equal, some cheap brands really are also nasty and take longer to install.

There is also a bit more to it than unscrewing a cable from one unit and into another. I for one would be somewhat unhappy if that is how you put it to me, I wouldn't be "negotiating" as you mentioned, but walking away and letting you find someone cheap enough.

 

[newfutile]

Where can you get RCBO for a fiver I pay £25- 30 for mine

 

[littlespark]

cheapest rcd split board, possibly proteus from CEF. They have pre populated boards, but maybe not with an SPD.
might have to swap out certain sizes of breaker. £100 ish for materials.
Rcbo board, as above... £30+ per breaker, never mind the empty board.

electricians like to fit what they choose. That way we know we can give a warranty safe knowing the materials won’t be at fault.
fitting customer supplied stuff can get complicated when it goes wrong.
Buying cheap tat, esp from eBay, you could get a fake device that doesn’t work as it should.

I’m in a relatively cheap part of the country, and I would struggle to change a board for under £500, on the strength of a visual inspection.


working with electricity is as safety critical as working with gas or the brakes on your car, and you wouldn’t think twice about paying for those..... or would you?

 

[telectrix]

from post #53:

te materials metal cons unit ~£50, rcbo and fuses £5x10 (seen online). Call it £150inc vat +

what planet are you on? RCBOs are around £25 each. you probably need somewhere between 6 and 10 of these. and where do fuses come in?

 

[mattg4321]

I’ve just priced up a domestic consumer unit change. All RCBO with SPD. Materials cost to me are nearly £400 plus vat.

 

[UNG]

Well i stand informed :-/, thankyou.
There are 2 different electricians, both of which are experienced and i feel, competent, although one speaks in technical gobbledegook and " doesn't have time to educate me".
I'm trying negotiate with the 2nd buts hes avoiding me. I guess he reckons time will pressure me into accepting his orig quote.

I estimate materials metal cons unit ~£50, rcbo and fuses £5x10 (seen online). Call it £150inc vat + getting it The rest is labour. So that works out at £66/ circuit to unscrew a cable from one unit and screw into another, test their and say 12 sockets continuity, mark up a form, email it to me.

The problem.with the fellow's quote is what i want it a clear EICR form in my hand, that is one done with necessary corrections. We both expect any extra work if any to be minor, but you never know. His quote is to fit the consumer unit and do the test. That is if he id any additional problems on the form it goes and an estate agent will want it corrected and restested, according circulating rumours.

As hes not communicating now, i'm left in a difficult. Accept and leave myself open to ransom. Refuse and potentially go through similar with another electrician.

Its seems theres no standard of practice. Thats not to say either of electricians who've quoted are dodgy. But i the punter am having to go through a system of what ought to fundamentals in supply if a service, but are turning into sticking points. Perhaps there should be a common standard of customer service, overseen by BEIS or the Dept for Energy. That is:

prices quoted should include to completion of work incl fixes for id'd and additional small newly id'd problems.

Work should be conducted so that a premis/ property is left in an condition another competent electrician would find no faults.

In the event any fault is identified in a persons work or paperwork, he will fix it with 2 weeks of being notified, unless dangerous in which case within 1 day.

Additional there shd be a guidance chart automatically updated to average unit cost / materials across a number of common suppliers( computers can do this these days)

And by constituency:
Average length of job
Average labour rate
Average call out charge

These figures wouldn't regulate down the prices, but by visibility would allow customers to know when they're being scr'd or when they're simply facing the going rate, no matter uncomfortable it is ;-)

I don't know what your line of work is and whether you have customers that forensically analyse what they think they should pay for the products and / or services you supply but with that in mind I would suggest you put yourself in the position of the electrician(s) who have quoted you for the work and then read what you have posted then decide how you would react then you may understand what the problem is, personally I would probably just walk away and not communicate with you

 

[Mike Johnson]

To the OP, I think what you need is a "JCT Small Works Contract" that would give you overall control of contractor and would give the contractor the benefit of payment for additional works found during the fit out, perhaps both of you would be satisfied, personally I would walk away.

 

[davidanthony41]

Good morning

I am a consumer, an accidental landlord, which means I rent out my former home as my circumstances changed a few years ago.

I need an EICR in order to carry on renting my flat.

The NICEIC registered electrician that came turned out to be unqualified and the report not worth the paper it is written on. I know this because I had another electrician look at it. Even without looking at the installation, a novice like me can see that the report is full of ambiguity with a frightening array of C2 codes. It was quite clear that faults had been invented so that this company could charge for further work.

I made a complaint to the NICEIC and they acknowledged there were ‘issues’ but insist that the original company returns to put the matter right.

This makes absolutely no sense to me and I have 2 questions.

1. If this person/company was incompetent (and probably dishonest) the first time around, why would he/they be any more competent or honest the next time?

2. What qualifications should I be looking for to engage a competent, experienced EICR-capable electrician?

I have read on your forum that even electricians with 20 years’ experience can struggle to pass the exams to do an EICR and can still trip over these codes.

This is all part of a bigger story which I’ll be happy to share, but let me start with that.

Thanks for your time.

JH4JILL

I’ve been an electrician for over 30 years and these condition reports are a steep learning curve and I would say I’m still not there 100%.but I tend to pick up the same problems.over 50 to 70% a new fuseboard is needed because everything has to be protected by an red.also las to be metal.the bathroom light has to be ip rated most times it’s not.the fan if it’s in zone 2 has to be extra low voltage.gas and water bonded. Continuity of ring main these ar Ed main problems anyway.you could be looking at 700 for this and at the moment it isn’t out the ordinary.people might disagree
I admit myself I’m not 100% there but I’m nearly there.just by a visual check I can tell the land lord the direction he will be going in.another one is smoke detectors linkedthey are £40 each so it soon builds up

 

[westward10]

Everything has to be rcd protected; No.
Fan in zone 2 has to be SELV; No.
Non-linked smoke detectors; Not a concern for an EICR.

 

[Dartlec]

I’ve been an electrician for over 30 years and these condition reports are a steep learning curve and I would say I’m still not there 100%.but I tend to pick up the same problems.over 50 to 70% a new fuseboard is needed because everything has to be protected by an red.also las to be metal.the bathroom light has to be ip rated most times it’s not.the fan if it’s in zone 2 has to be extra low voltage.gas and water bonded. Continuity of ring main these ar Ed main problems anyway.you could be looking at 700 for this and at the moment it isn’t out the ordinary.people might disagree
I admit myself I’m not 100% there but I’m nearly there.just by a visual check I can tell the land lord the direction he will be going in.another one is smoke detectors linkedthey are £40 each so it soon builds up

Actually, 240V fans are fine even in zone 1, if they are the relevant IP rating (can't remember off the top of my head - 67?)- though 12V ones are sometimes a better idea.

The bathroom light one is perhaps the most common picked up for sure, because seemingly every new build in the 80s and 90s around here just put a pendant in - though even then outside of zones (including above 2.25m which most ceilings are), then there are no specific IP requirements.

Though some things depend on whether you have a NAPIT EICR or not, of course.....

 

[littlespark]

Everything has to be rcd protected; No.
Fan in zone 2 has to be SELV; No.
Non-linked smoke detectors; Not a concern for an EICR.

I know it’s not relevant to this particular situation, but in Scotland, smoke detectors do need to be linked... in every home, not just rented.

 

[telectrix]

I know it’s not relevant to this particular situation, but in Scotland, smoke detectors do need to be linked... in every home, not just rented.

yes, but not in the remit of an EICR, unless they are installed with non-compliant wiring.

 

[littlespark]

yes, but not in the remit of an EICR, unless they are installed with non-compliant wiring.

@telectrix 1, @littlespark 0

 

[richy3333]

yes, but not in the remit of an EICR, unless they are installed with non-compliant wiring.

Afraid they are in Scotland. The short form tenancy agreement and/or Housing Act asks us to comment on the fire detection when undertaking an EICR. I appreciate you would not know that being in England. BS7671 also reference BS5839 within the fundamental principles - 110.1 so, personally I'd comment on fire detection.

 

[telectrix]

Afraid they are in Scotland. The short form tenancy agreement and/or Housing Act asks us to comment on the fire detection when undertaking an EICR. I appreciate you would not know that being in England. BS7671 also reference BS5839 within the fundamental principles - 110.1 so, personally I'd comment on fire detection.

i would also comment on itbut there is no mention of fire detection on any of the BS7671 EICR forms.

 

[loz2754]

i would also comment on itbut there is no mention of fire detection on any of the BS7671 EICR forms.

I agree. In view of the importance of having adequate working smoke alarms, I always add a comment (with no code), if there are no smoke alarms, or if there's a problem with the smoke alarms. It's just something I do. Because I'm that kinda guy.

 

[telectrix]

?

 

[richy3333]

I use the comments box or a continuation page for it