Dodgy trade pictures for your amusement! - 1 Million Views!

[Mike Johnson]

@steviethepar
You can make a good quality crimp joint on solid core

Hydraulic cripping tool works every time, in fact some of the solid crips can't be used with anything else, a ratchet crimping tool will not touch them.

 

[Dustydazzler]

The red blue yellow dot ratchet crimper I have always been told is for stranded wires like flex and auto wire connections only and never to used to solid conductors.

you need to use a special crimp tool with teeth and the correct crimps to joint solid wires

 

[mainline]

Hydraulic cripping tool works every time

I've never seen a hydraulic crimping tool with a die to fit a small blue/red crimp.

 

[mainline]

The red blue yellow dot ratchet crimper I have always been told is for stranded wires like flex and auto wire connections only and never to used to solid conductors.

you need to use a special crimp tool with teeth and the correct crimps to joint solid wires

Some crimps are suitable for solid conductors, some are not.

 

[nicebutdim]

I've never seen a hydraulic crimping tool with a die to fit a small blue/red crimp.

Battery/hydraulic crimpers available for this very purpose, although not likely anyone's going to buy one for occasional crimps.

EK 50 ML / EK WF 50 ML Electromechanical crimping tool | Klauke

EK 50 ML / EK WF 50 ML Electromechanical crimping tool

www.klauke.com

 

[westward10]

Can we keep this on track discussing crimps has been done to death.

 

[DPG]

Can we keep this on track discussing crimps has been done to death.

Always cheese and onion.

Ooh, you corrected it quickly!!

 

[westward10]

How in went to crisps I don't know

 

[MJPD29]

Couple of 'Dodgy' terminations on a recently refurbished job!

How do they sleep at night? That would drive me mental

 

[Dustydazzler]

How do they sleep at night? That would drive me mental

Scary thing is , people who do carp work like that actually think that they have done a good job.

 

[mainline]

Gone back to using my old crimping tool as these are useless

 

[Dustydazzler]

Those are for heats shrink

 

[littlespark]

Grill for very small panini. ??

 

[LeeH]

Found this while looking through some old pics.

 

[nicebutdim]

Not so much dodgy on part of original installer, but very much dodgy through the passage of time.

15A socket was still in use until an hour ago.

 

[littlespark]

Did you change it to a 13A, or just done away with it?

Rest of the house of a similar vintage?

 

[Dustydazzler]

NBD you have touched it now you are going to have to price to Re-wire the entire Gaff

 

[7029 dave]

Looks like the insulation is fallen off that vir

 

[nicebutdim]

Did you change it to a 13A, or just done away with it?

Rest of the house of a similar vintage?

Chopped in a few boxes which will be supplied by a new circuit.

I suspect a few parts are still wired in rubber, but most has been replaced.

NBD you have touched it now you are going to have to price to Re-wire the entire Gaff

Radial serving that single socket in that single room.

Looks like the insulation is fallen off that vir

Not enough on the floor to cover the neutral, but it was well separated from the line in that old socket..

 

[Dustydazzler]

Its amazong how much of this rubber cable I still come across that is still in service , its fine until you touch it then it just crumbles in your fingers.

 

[nicebutdim]

Its amazong how much of this rubber cable I still come across that is still in service , its fine until you touch it then it just crumbles in your fingers.

Run from the board was fine and perfectly supple and I didn't expect it to be so bad at the socket. I've seen it crumble before, but this stuff was as hard and brittle as plastic where it had fallen apart.

 

[7029 dave]

Run from the board was fine and perfectly supple and I didn't expect it to be so bad at the socket. I've seen it crumble before, but this stuff was as hard and brittle as plastic where it had fallen apart.

In my experience with VIR it aways crumbles at the end where accessories are connected to it, heat does not help, but the material will just degrade naturally over decades of time.

 

[Dustydazzler]

In my experience with VIR it aways crumbles at the end where accessories are connected to it, heat does not help, but the material will just degrade naturally over decades of time.

I am way to young to have installed rubber twin cable , what sort of age are we looking at now. some of this cable must be pushing 80 - 90 years old and still in service in thousands of homes

 

[7029 dave]

I am way to young to have installed rubber twin cable , what sort of age are we looking at now. some of this cable must be pushing 80 - 90 years old and still in service in thousands of homes

VIR singles were used in domestic homes 1910 to the 1950,s possibly 113 years if still in service

 

[nicebutdim]

They reckoned that house was originally wired in the 50s. Probably about the same age as any I've seen - not sure that many houses around here had electricity before then.

 

[nicebutdim]

VIR singles were used in domestic homes 1910 to the 1950,s 113 years if still in service

That socket was wired in flat 2 core cable, although lighting to room below is still insulated & sheathed rubber singles.

 

[7029 dave]

That socket was wired in flat 2 core cable, although lighting to room below is still insulated & sheathed rubber singles.

Yeah saw that, was dating the VIR singles because I know it was used in the early 1900s, dont think the flat twin was that early not sure. Defiantly used in the 50s as you know I would guess 1930 only because have rewired houses of that era with that type of cable.

 

[LeeH]

How not to make off CY off.

 

[mainline]

How not to make off CY off.View attachment 109836

Better not to use it in the beginning

 

[LeeH]

Better not to use it in the beginning

What would you use?

 

[James]

What would you use?

If it is not inverter driven than CY or it’s equivalent polyurethane coated version.
for a stationary motor, singles in conduit would be fine (tri rated)

edit, I did not mean CY, I meant YY. Oops, CY is screened similar to Sy and not required unless there is an emc issue.

 

[LeeH]

If it is not inverter driven than CY or it’s equivalent polyurethane coated version.
for a stationary motor, singles in conduit would be fine (tri rated)

edit, I did not mean CY, I meant YY. Oops, CY is screened similar to Sy and not required unless there is an emc issue.

That’s my point. You did not know the application so unsure why you stated it was not fit for purpose.

 

[mainline]

What would you use?

One that is recognised by British standards

SY, CY and YY cables are not manufactured to a specific British, European or international standard so in most cases it is not possible to demonstrate the performance safety standards required to satisfy the Wiring Regulations.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I would say 90% of times I have come across braided style cables they have not been installed using the correct glands.
Near every time they have been installed like the picture using a stuffing galnd Or no gland at all

 

[Mike Johnson]

European or international standard so in most cases it is not possible to demonstrate the performance safety standards required to satisfy the Wiring Regulations.

What wiring Regulations?

 

[LeeH]

One that is recognised by British standards

SY, CY and YY cables are not manufactured to a specific British, European or international standard so in most cases it is not possible to demonstrate the performance safety standards required to satisfy the Wiring Regulations.

Again, you are making the assumption that it was used in a fixed installation. 7671 does not apply here.

2 responses of complete rubbish here…

Surprised by this TBH.

 

[brianmoooore]

I would say 90% of times I have come across braided style cables they have not been installed using the correct glands.

Is there a 'correct' gland for this stuff? I've never installed any of it, but have performed maintenance and repair on installations using it, and the only glands I've come across are standard stuffing ones.

 

[Fazz711]

Is there a 'correct' gland for this stuff? I've never installed any of it, but have performed maintenance and repair on installations using it, and the only glands I've come across are standard stuffing ones.

Yes proper sheild cable glands are available but very rarely used.
They look a bit like SWA glands when done

 

[James]

CXT | Single Seal Industrial Cable Gland | CMP Products Limited

CXT Industrial Single Seal Cable Gland, for Screened Flexible (EMC) Wire Braid Cable

www.cmp-products.com

as an example

 

[LeeH]

CXT | Single Seal Industrial Cable Gland | CMP Products Limited

CXT Industrial Single Seal Cable Gland, for Screened Flexible (EMC) Wire Braid Cable

www.cmp-products.com

as an example

CXT | Single Seal Industrial Cable Gland | CMP Products Limited

CXT Industrial Single Seal Cable Gland, for Screened Flexible (EMC) Wire Braid Cable

www.cmp-products.com

as an example

For EMC compliance, the braid needs (should) be taken back to the source (drive)

So I’m calling out -------- again unless these are intended to terminate onto the gland plate of the drive (which most don’t have).

Also these use pigtails, also VERY poor for EMC compliance.

Sorry…

 

[Fazz711]

20mm Brass SY Multiflex Gland Kit - IP66 - 2 Glands (Small)​

Product Code: SY CXT20S

slide 1 of 1

This is the kind of gland I was thinking about

 

[davesparks]

Is there a 'correct' gland for this stuff? I've never installed any of it, but have performed maintenance and repair on installations using it, and the only glands I've come across are standard stuffing ones.

Yes there are various types of gland available which connect the braided shield by various means. Some required the braid to be pigtailed and clamped in a slot in the gland while others work more like an SWA gland.

Stuffing glands can also be the correct gland depending on the application.

For some installations the braiding will need to be connected to earth at one end of the cable and isolated at the other end.

 

[mainline]

Again, you are making the assumption that it was used in a fixed installation. 7671 does not apply here.

2 responses of complete rubbish here…

Surprised by this TBH.

I haven't made any assumptions as to what YOU used it for, I said that I basically wouldn't use it.

The uncertainty is how much you might rely on the braid either as a CPC or as an earthed 'armour' to allow routing out of a 'safe' zone. Now the braid resistance of all but the shortest length is not really low enough for a CPC on its own, (the braid resistance is not a well controlled parameter) and rather like cables protected by thin foils, there is a risk that if the cable was stabbed by a nail or similar, that the braid wires might just burn back from the point nearest the damage without actually blowing a fuse. So if you want to route it 'out of zone' into places where nail and screw damage is likely, especially without RCD protection, then perhaps it is not enough.




The IET's supporting guidance states: “For the purposes of ensuring compliance with BS 7671, the installation and use of non-standard cables, such as SY, CY and YY cables is discouraged.

 

[brianmoooore]

CXT | Single Seal Industrial Cable Gland | CMP Products Limited

CXT Industrial Single Seal Cable Gland, for Screened Flexible (EMC) Wire Braid Cable

www.cmp-products.com

I've had one of those in my SWA gland box on the shelf for years. No idea where it came from, and, up until today, no idea what it was intended for.

 

[brianmoooore]

For some installations the braiding will need to be connected to earth at one end of the cable and isolated at the other end.

"Isolated" being the operative word. Not waving around in space, a couple of mm from 400V terminals, like in the OP for this particular sub section of this thread.

 

[westward10]

Let's not turn this thread, if you want to debate these cables which has done many times before start another thread.

 

[Welchyboy1]

Now I know this one may not count as it was in Spain, and everyone knows the quality of the electrical work over there but this was on a main public street on the main road into town

Thats my daughter in the picture

I had to have a look in the cupboard didnt I! as it was wide open and im never off duty! : )

Looks like a three phase connection with the cover open, terminals accessible to any no. of small inquisitive hands

Unbelievable! It was humming so obviously live

Shut the door and tried to wedge it, told the reception staff in the hotel they couldnt give a monkeys

That would be unforgivable in the UK

 

[littlespark]

I just came back from Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro and Italy…. And didn’t see anything as dumb as that.

France and Spain seem to be the worst for dodgy electrics…. But I’m not that well travelled. Just my observations.

 

[ipf]

I just came back from Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro and Italy…. And didn’t see anything as dumb as that.

France and Spain seem to be the worst for dodgy electrics…. But I’m not that well travelled. Just my observations.

I'm worried we're catching them up, fast.

 

[pirate]

From extensive time/travel in Spain I have to agree that some of the stuff "on the street" is highly accessible and dangerous. Some installations are downright funny too! Street boxes without lids are commonplace and in many places the supplies for every imagineable use are simply various cables bundled up with cable-ties and hung on the outside walls just above head-height.TBH, I've not heard of many deaths caused by such sloppy electrics.