Domestic consumer upgrades

[Christian1981]

Hi I’m a commercial electrician and don’t do much domestic work and was just looking for some advice on pricing consumer unit upgrades. I’m vat registered and have been told about people charging £495 plus vat for dual rcd board and £795 plus vat for RCBOs

 

[Pete999]

Hi I’m a commercial electrician and don’t do much domestic work and was just looking for some advice on pricing consumer unit upgrades. I’m vat registered and have been told about people charging £495 plus vat for dual rcd board and £795 plus vat for RCBOs

What's a Commercial Electrician?

 

[telectrix]

that's a bit steep. my prices would be nearer £350 /£500, respectively depending on no. of ways and accessibility. not including any remedial works to circuits,bonding etc.

 

[Baddegg]

At £960 for a board change I doubt they’d get many takers!

 

[Andy78]

Depends a lot on what brands you are using, especially on RCBO options, but those prices are very high for my area. I'd get no takers at that.

 

[davesparks]

What's a Commercial Electrician?

An electrician working in the commercial sector.

 

[Baddegg]

Never met many people at a domestic level that would be happy paying the extra 20% either....

 

[Pete999]

An electrician working in the commercial sector.

o not really an electrician then? Just someone who can't do Domestic or Industrial electrical installations, or am I wrong? You are either an electrician or you are not.

 

[Pete999]

o not really an electrician then? Just someone who can't do Domestic or Industrial electrical installations, or am I wrong? You are either an electrician or you are not.

Understandable, so what sort of electrician do you class yourself as Westy, Domestic, Commercial or industrial, or an electrician full stop.

 

[Fitzy]

Are you CPS registered with NICEIC, Stroma etc as domestic CU replacements are part P notifiable jobs?

 

[Andy78]

o not really an electrician then? Just someone who can't do Domestic or Industrial electrical installations, or am I wrong? You are either an electrician or you are not.

Not sure how you've reached a conclusion about the OP's skills or competence from what has been posted, but it's hardly relevant to the thread.

 

[Pete999]

Not sure how you've reached a conclusion about the OP's skills or competence from what has been posted, but it's hardly relevant to the thread.

"I am a Commercial Electrician"

 

[Baddegg]

o not really an electrician then? Just someone who can't do Domestic or Industrial electrical installations, or am

I’d assume that’s the area he’s always worked in and is most comfortable at, to be fair to the op Pete he’s asking questions about pricing not principals or installation methods

 

[buzzlightyear]

o not really an electrician then? Just someone who can't do Domestic or Industrial electrical installations, or am I wrong? You are either an electrician or you are not.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Hi I’m a commercial electrician and don’t do much domestic work and was just looking for some advice on pricing consumer unit upgrades. I’m vat registered and have been told about people charging £495 plus vat for dual rcd board and £795 plus vat for RCBOs

What you got to factor in here is that the customer will be paying your vat, so thats an immediate cross next to your name. you will be competing against dangerous dave from the pub who moonlights as a 'electrician' and offers no guarantee, testing or paperwork.
Also need to factor in that sometimes its not safe for the seal fairies to pull the fuse either so customer has to pay for the dno if there is no isolator.
Personally for a straightforward board change with dual rcd and no major issues to rectify id be around the £380-400 max depending on if i am fitting an isolator aswell. RCBO boards and around £500-550 for rcbo board although very much dependant on brand and number of circuits. currently getting a hager rcbos very cheap from a local small wholesaler as they got them left from a cancelled order. so fitting them.

 

[Midwest]

Perhaps the OP is including AFDD's & SPD's

 

[Baddegg]

Perhaps the OP is including AFDD's & SPD's

He’s obviously one hell of a salesman as well as a commercial spark!!

 

[The Ghost]

As a matter of fact I think a larger firm would easily charge those prices. But then that would usually be for commercial concerns such as offices and shops etc. Domestic CU changes you are up against the lack of resources/money in the domestic arena. You may find a few takers at that price but you would wait a long time between the next work I guess. Realistically testing beforehand and changing might typically take a day or near it. So £280 at my rates. Then a decent DB plus RCBO can be had for circa less than £200 So I would agree with prices so far quoted. But then I have a had a four way change done in a couple of hours with RCBO so charge accordingly as it was so easy and straightforward.

 

[davesparks]

o not really an electrician then? Just someone who can't do Domestic or Industrial electrical installations, or am I wrong? You are either an electrician or you are not.

Why would they not be an electrician? What is the definition of electrician that you are using?

Why does someone need to be skilled in industrial, commercial and domestic work to be an electrician? An electrician who works only in one sector of the industry is still an electrician.

Personally I describe myself as a commercial electrician when people ask what I do for a living, mainly because if you just say electrician they proceed to ask you if you can fix their lights for them, telling them you're a commercial or non-domestic electrician helps avoid it.

 

[rolyberkin]

The joy of not being VAT registered ;-)

 

[HappyHippyDad]

o not really an electrician then? Just someone who can't do Domestic or Industrial electrical installations, or am I wrong? You are either an electrician or you are not.

Not any more Pete, the times they are a changin

 

[ipf]

Not any more Pete, the times they are a changin

Can't remember who said that....was it Bob Dylan or Matt Dillon from Gunsmoke?

 

[Wilko]

At £960 for a board change I doubt they’d get many takers!

I recommend you price like this just now while you're resting up. Any takers you get, I'll work under supervision .

 

[Nigel]

This is a £1000 pound plus VAT job for me including SPD.

I don't do much domestic.........

 

[Baddegg]

I recommend you price like this just now while you're resting up. Any takers you get, I'll work under supervision .

At them rates I could make money sat here wilko ha ha

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Was working on a job installing studs into a concrete ceiling.
One of the guys complained that the studs kept on falling out.
He didn’t realise the knock in anchors had to be podged.
Bloody house bashers.

 

[Markyd]

£35 per hour plus materials

 

[sparksfly]

I average £550 incl for 10 way dual hager, wylex etc

 

[l4urence]

Competing with the 'Dangerous Dave' is always going to be a problem and it's not going to stop until they are found and prosecuted. Since they don't certify, they are difficult to find. Bastards.

 

[telectrix]

just been to look at a job.new extension, several grand. all electrics done by or through builder.....no certs, BC witholding completion.

kitchen ring.....no r1 (L-L), no RCD ( taken from wrong side of split board). 16A MCB.
12 downlighters, all halogen. christ knows if insulation smothering them. FI required. and no RCD for luminaire circuit
gas bond cut off and left dangling.

bloody cowboys. told customer to contact BC and get them to put pressure on, make the buggers come back and either do it right or pay me ( cash upfront, of course) to do it .

 

[Andy78]

Just been to look at a job myself. Local takeaway been open since December. They had a full renovation prior to opening including a full rewire. All looks very smart.
Recent leaks in the front canopy have tracked down the pendant flexes causing tripping of the RCD. The only RCD, that takes out all circuits. In the second hand chint board fitted on what looks otherwise like quite a good job. No cert of course and the electrical firm that did the install are currently "working out of town".

 

[telectrix]

back on the ranch, no doubt.

 

[Wilko]

With the impact on business, I just don't get why folks don't go rcbo throughout.
My visit to a premises the other day was based on Customer (friend of Wifey) complaining their leccie bill was too high -"that can't be right, I'm paying for the whole building ...". I attended but after 10minutes I got bored with looking at tails and meters (no obvious problem), I went up to the kitchen and I could hear water running. Washing up? Maybe. Anyway it turns out their dual immersion was busy day and night trying to keep the tank water warm as it poured out the (failed open) prv into the tundish. "How long's this been going on I ask." ... "It's always made that noise " she replied. Plumber got a job and I got a coffee.

 

[Richy]

that's a bit steep. my prices would be nearer £350 /£500, respectively depending on no. of ways and accessibility. not including any remedial works to circuits,bonding etc.

 

[Richy]

I can't understand why so many electricians undervalue their work. They train hard and have high overheads..and charge a measly £350 for a consumer unit upgrade.This involves care and attention and insurance warranties etc. Not to mention testing every connected circuit and then recording and registering a certificate with the local authority.
Its time electricians wake up and smell the coffee. £495.00 for a 10 way split sounds perfectly reasonable to me.I would like to get this but I have to settle for £425.00. Due to cheapskate guvvy job leccys installing them on the side tax exempt with no certificate or insurance blahdy blah.
I have tested some cheapy jobs and had to recommend improvements because of cut corners...especially tests on dangerous c1s left in place.
Price it right and you won't need to rush it or cut corners...have some pride in your profession .

 

[SparkyChick]

It's not a case of undervaluing our work, it's just a case of charging what the local market will stomach.

@telectrix mentioned a job he missed out on the other day, I missed out on a similar job (replace two PIR floods, move old floods to garage replacing two non PIR floods). I err'd on the side of caution and used my standard 1 hour per light pricing strategy (which seems reasonable and provides some accommodation for unexpected issues, so 4 hours or half a day). £120 + materials.

I lost out because I was 'significantly' more expensive than who ever got the job.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Not sure whether that £425 includes the cost of the CU?

 

[Deleted account]

When pricing I aim for £250-£300 per day. This allows for overrunning of jobs or unexpected issues and return visits if products I supply go wrong.

this also covers the sourcing of materials invoicing quotes etc...

 

[Richy]

I would like to see us all agree a fixed labour rate for as many specific jobs as possible.
Ie £425.00 for a 10 way split.
£40.00 per hour short term work.
£250.00 per day minimum per man.
Feel free to throw some figures in lets have a debate on this.
I would also like to see a local blacklist of repeat non payers.

 

[SparkyChick]

I hate to say it but that's like trying to have 28 countries all with a unified economic policy and currency... it's not exactly working out well.

The problem is my overheads are different to your overheads which are different to the next persons, and it all depends on your target market and local economy.

And regardless of what decent sparks agree, there is always going to be that bloke down the pub who'll do it for £50.

 

[Deleted account]

A debate would not help due to regional variations in cost of living and affluence.
As for black listing, it could only be done in your own local area with people/ tradesmen you know.

 

[SparkyChick]

Yeah, the blacklisting idea raises all sorts of issues around data protection. You would have to declare that you may share your clients data with other trades people and as such you'd become a data controller under the GDPR which brings with it a shed load of baggage.

In most cases, if you're sensible, you'll just use your clients data for processing their orders and emailing them occasionally (if they elect to receive mailings from you) and nothing more.

 

[Richy]

Thanks for the comments.
I know over heads differ but still minimums need to be agreed.
My local area has Ssi funded competitors which enables them to undercut unfunded people like us.
When their funding runs out they will struggle to balance the books.
The Blacklist could be done on a local basis with a national list to reduce serial non payers impact.This list would need to have proof of non payment evidence etc.
Lets have minimum rates.
The £50 guy can't certify so maybe we should only certify jobs with proven legitimacy and weasel out these non tax payers .

 

[Richy]

Yes I get the idea,this needs to be a provided service by Napit or Niec etc,maybe its a new business idea for some clever person,I would use it.
I generally can sus a customer but sometimes they are pro blaggers.

 

[SparkyChick]

The £50 guy can't certify so maybe we should only certify jobs with proven legitimacy and weasel out these non tax payers .

The issue is, the average customer has little to no idea about notifying building control and zero clue about what paperwork they should be getting from us.

If they general public were properly clued up, it may help but there will always be those willing to forgo a little paperwork to save a few quid.

It's an admirable idea but it's simply not possible to align all sparks pricing because everyone's circumstances are different. Consider an example...

A client has asked me to change 6 light fittings. I know there are no issues that require attention on the circuit because I've already inspected the property as part of my repairs that were required following a small electrical fire. How long would you quote for that task?

 

[Wilko]

Hi - my smallest quote for that would likely be 2 hours.

 

[SparkyChick]

Hi - my smallest quote for that would likely be 2 hours.

How would you quote if you were expecting wiring issues? I've been told neighbours have tried to change light fittings and have experienced big problems with zero slack on the cables.

I should perhaps have made my statement about no issue clearer... electrically there are no issues, but practically I don't know.

I don't consider myself slow, but I don't think I could maintain 20 minutes per fitting on any light swap job.

 

[Wilko]

Yes, I agree it's fast. But that's minimum for swapping pendants say. Having been caught out (ACM, CPC and now there's RCD rules) so I won't guesstimate lighting jobs without seeing them. A small local wiring extension / tidy up is MF box and 15 minutes labour. If plasterboard holes required to access cables, another 15 minutes to remove and replace with baton and screws. Pack, unpack, clean and certify all ++ . Just my r.o.t. .

 

[sparksfly]

The issue is, the average customer has little to no idea about notifying building control and zero clue about what paperwork they should be getting from us.

If they general public were properly clued up, it may help but there will always be those willing to forgo a little paperwork to save a few quid.

It's an admirable idea but it's simply not possible to align all sparks pricing because everyone's circumstances are different. Consider an example...

A client has asked me to change 6 light fittings. I know there are no issues that require attention on the circuit because I've already inspected the property as part of my repairs that were required following a small electrical fire. How long would you quote for that task?

I would price it at £160 ...4 hours. However, we all know too well the current trend in customers providing really nice looking light fittings that take more time to assemble then install. Manufacturers put more time into designing fittings with the emphasis on shipping more units per container than ease of installation or incompatibility with UK's extensive use of T/E.

 

[davesparks]

I would like to see us all agree a fixed labour rate for as many specific jobs as possible.

£250.00 per day minimum per man.

Are you mad? I wouldnt leave the house for that pittance.