Domestic rewire radials or ring final,s ???

[Jimmyb]

Living room and bedrooms on there own 20/25a radial and kitchen on32a ring if there is a sitting room or other room downstair then put seperate radial for that, the main reason is that if there is a fault on one the rooms the whole of downstairs is not lost and you have more than 32a shared between downstairs.

With the testing i wouldnt say it easier to test just quicker, the other reason i like radials is when you get mr builder who adds extra sockets in and take a spur from a spur because it worked fine for years on every job he has done.

As for adding sockets, its just the same as adding to a ring apart from a 4mm radial as trying to add another 4mm cable i can be hard work and with some brands of sockets impossible hence the ring final for the kitchen.

 

[TaffyDuck]

Certainly wouldn't use a radial on the downstairs outlets, but probably fine on the upstairs low usage areas. But as Glen has stated you design your circuits to suit the requirements/layout/situation your dealing with, .....and not the other way round!!

Those that keep going on about the ease of installing Radials over rings and why they use them, are just telling me they have trouble testing and fault finding. As for the nonsense about easier to add outlets at a later stage, i think they must be talking about extending from the last outlet, certainly no different to a ring circuit elsewhere...

Agree 100%

 

[UNG]

Certainly wouldn't use a radial on the downstairs outlets, but probably fine on the upstairs low usage areas. But as Glen has stated you design your circuits to suit the requirements/layout/situation your dealing with, .....and not the other way round!!

Those that keep going on about the ease of installing Radials over rings and why they use them, are just telling me they have trouble testing and fault finding. As for the nonsense about easier to add outlets at a later stage, i think they must be talking about extending from the last outlet, certainly no different to a ring circuit elsewhere...

Got to agree with this while some argue it's easier to install radials not using ring circuits is like leaving some of your tools in the box unused

Living room and bedrooms on there own 20/25a radial and kitchen on32a ring if there is a sitting room or other room downstair then put seperate radial for that, the main reason is that if there is a fault on one the rooms the whole of downstairs is not lost and you have more than 32a shared between downstairs.

Are you suggesting a single radial for the living room and bedrooms or a radial for each room

With the testing i wouldnt say it easier to test just quicker, the other reason i like radials is when you get mr builder who adds extra sockets in and take a spur from a spur because it worked fine for years on every job he has done.

Doesn't stop Mr builder bodging the electrics, lost count of the number of times I've found the 8 circuit or increasing the MCB size because of nuisance tripping of the 20A breaker

As for adding sockets, its just the same as adding to a ring apart from a 4mm radial as trying to add another 4mm cable i can be hard work and with some brands of sockets impossible hence the ring final for the kitchen.

Then we have the 4mm² radial and because the terminals are packed it gets extended or spurred off in 2.5mm² or some of the strands in the 4mm are trimmed back to make everything fit


The long and the short of it is there are pros and cons to each method and how each installation will be used in the future is crystal ball land as more and more power hungry equipment comes to market we may need to rethink how domestic properties are wired, how about skirting busbar systems one big radial and customer has a box of socket outlets to place where ever they want and bodged electrics could be a thing of the past.

 

[Amp David]

4mm radial hate em, to much wrestling with the cable terminations for me, stick 2 RFC in 2.5 myself.

The deciding factor as for which circuit to use for me comes down to the size and layout of the property, what each room is to be used as and the budget available

 

[Knobhead]

Then we have the 4mm² radial and because the terminals are packed it gets extended or spurred off in 2.5mm² or some of the strands in the 4mm are trimmed back to make everything fit

Don’t believe I’ve just read that!

 

[Engineer54]

Living room and bedrooms on there own 20/25a radial and kitchen on32a ring if there is a sitting room or other room downstair then put seperate radial for that, the main reason is that if there is a fault on one the rooms the whole of downstairs is not lost and you have more than 32a shared between downstairs.

With the testing i wouldnt say it easier to test just quicker, the other reason i like radials is when you get mr builder who adds extra sockets in and take a spur from a spur because it worked fine for years on every job he has done.

As for adding sockets, its just the same as adding to a ring apart from a 4mm radial as trying to add another 4mm cable i can be hard work and with some brands of sockets impossible hence the ring final for the kitchen.

All these radials, ....Your going to end up with CU'S the size of those used in many European countries, and many if not most UK homes especially the older ones have just about enough room to cater for the 17th edition CU's. Basically a waste of time and money installing ALL radials, for just for the sake of them....

 

[Ben Grant]

Radials are a pain, did a Job in a recently rewired church. Was wired in LSF 4.0mm twin in PVC trunking. Wanted a few extra sockets, and as I couldnt put a third conductor in the back of a socket outlet already holding 2 4.0mm conductors I had to go to the end of the circuit and extend from there. Radials in 2.5 have a better future proof to them

 

[Jimmyb]

All these radials, ....Your going to end up with CU'S the size of those used in many European countries, and many if not most UK homes especially the older ones have just about enough room to cater for the 17th edition CU's. Basically a waste of time and money installing ALL radials, for just for the sake of them....

How do you work that out, one extra circuit is going to make that much difference is it. how is it a wasted of money it is actually only one extra lenght of cable so 10m max and i was rewiring a house i would always install a board with a few extra ways so using one more isnt going to change the cost and like i said if u get a fault on one u dont lose the whole downstairs.

 

[rich.250]

I've got a colleague who loves radials. The number of times I've been to places where it keeps tripping and it's just overloading. 20a radial upstairs, hair drier, straighteners, tv and a few other things. And trip.......
Makes you look like a ****.
I always stick to the kitchen RFC, upstairs RFC and downstairs RFC.
Personally it gives more room in the db and more room for usage.

 

[TaffyDuck]

As far as I read it ( this is from 17th edition 2008) unless its changed
4mm t/e 70c Reference Method A ccc = 25 amps
Reference Method B ccc = 30 amps
Reference Method C ccc = 36 amps
reference method D isn`t relevant to domestic

So if you do anything other than clipped direct over the whole cable run you cant use a 32 amp MCB anyway.

Will put on my tin hat and await the incoming fire!!!!

 

[jase]

Those that keep going on about the ease of installing Radials over rings and why they use them, are just telling me they have trouble testing and fault finding.


How can it be any easier to install a radial??? there are still 2 cables going in and out of every socket unless its the last one!!!, as for having trouble testing, i have no trouble testing a ring, but find it less time consuming testing radials which is why i like to use them when ever i feel the need, last re-wire i did was a 2 up 2 down terraced house, upstairs radial, downstairs radial, both on 20A, and kitchen ring.

Just done a kitchen re-wire in a 2 bed ground floor flat last week and wired in 4mm 32A radial

 

[Fin170]

On rewires I make better use of radials, mostly to deal with disturbance to occupied homes. Can clear out 1 or 2 bedrooms and put them on radials working by the end of the day then move onto other rooms the next.

Kitchen and other current hungry rooms will usually be rings where doable.

 

[Jimmyb]

you always use a 25a mcb on 2.5mm radial as long it under 25meters

 

[imago]

I always install radials, but sometimes I loop them back to the CU.

 

[rich.250]

As far as I read it ( this is from 17th edition 2008) unless its changed
4mm t/e 70c Reference Method A ccc = 25 amps
Reference Method B ccc = 30 amps
Reference Method C ccc = 36 amps
reference method D isn`t relevant to domestic

So if you do anything other than clipped direct over the whole cable run you cant use a 32 amp MCB anyway.

Will put on my tin hat and await the incoming fire!!!!

I agree, it is hard to achieve a 32a radial. And to be realistic it's hard to achieve a 20a in 2.5!! Unless it's clipped direct.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

you always use a 25a mcb on 2.5mm radial as long it under 25meters

and would you not consider the installation method??......

 

[rich.250]

and would you not consider the installation method??......

My point exactly....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

My point exactly....

yes....sorry rich....just noticed #35.....

 

[rich.250]

Lol. For 25a radial in a thermally insulated wall. Probably be looking towards 6mm lol. Without doing the calc

 

[GLENNSPARK]

4mm for a 25A radial....method A....