EICR downgraded by Landlord’s Agent from C2 to C3

[UNG]

An EICR is not retrospective… so it doesn’t matter if it’s 5 or 15 years old regs. (Or 50 for that matter)

While an EICR is not retrospective the PRS clearly uses the 18th edition as it's reference point for electrical safety, so should the EICR reflect that when deciding on what codes need to be applied or the satisfactory / unsatisfactory condition of the installation. My take on the PRS legislation was that it was intended to improve the electrical safety of properties in the rental sector and without any C2's it will not achieve it's intended aim as C3's can sit on the report forever and a day with no action needed to improve what maybe considered problem areas

From a legal point of view as with most things there will be no precedent set until someone dies and the legislation is tested by an inquest and then the finger of blame will be pointed amongst the parties involved and then no doubt other litigation will take place to decide who carries the can

From what has been posted by the OP it is difficult to take an overall view of the installation or the quality of the EICR but looking at the picture of the old Wylex board with some of the fuse base slots filled with silicone to prevent access to the live parts behind it rather than spending a few pence on proper blanks sets the acceptable level IMO very low from the letting agents side

From the OP I'm trying to understand who commissioned the EICR that the letting agent is downgrading as the way the OP reads it was the tenant that commissioned it which would then suggest there are some concerns about the safety of the installation

 

[littlespark]

I skewed off a little on a tangent from the original subject… talking about what should be C2 or C3

The matter at hand is that the agent has changed the coding on an EICR to make it satisfactory, so no urgent remedial work is required. This may or may not be with the actual landlords knowledge.

The landlord possibly has no idea, or maybe doesn’t care what happens as long as they get their rent. They will be paying the agent to manage everything.

 

[westward10]

The agent has not changed the Report they are telling the tenant the C2s aren't actually C2s and require no work. What the agent thinks is irrelevant as the tenant is in possession of the Report which quotes them and as such they need addressing.

 

[baldelectrician]

I am a tenant. We recently had an EICR done which has come back as Unsatisfactory with numerous C2 issues. However, our landlords agent has stated that they aren’t actually C2 issues so don’t require any work doing. Apparently in accordance with the Best Practice Guide 4 they believe they can downgrade them to C3. But the documentation still says they are a C2 and overall unsatisfactory.

Can they do this? All sounds a bit odd to me!

Email the agent and ask for that in witing (email is good as it is time and date stamped) to ensure an audit trail if something were wrong.
This will prove liability if something were to happen

 

[baldelectrician]

Can you put the full EICR up ( less any identifying information) please

 

[LauraCanning]

Why does the agent have to pay for remedial work/maintenance?

The agent is paid to manage and maintain the properties.

 

[nicebutdim]

The agent is paid to manage and maintain the properties.

Or to not maintain them, when they consider their opinion to be of greater relevance than that of a professional in any given field.

 

[LauraCanning]

While an EICR is not retrospective the PRS clearly uses the 18th edition as it's reference point for electrical safety, so should the EICR reflect that when deciding on what codes need to be applied or the satisfactory / unsatisfactory condition of the installation. My take on the PRS legislation was that it was intended to improve the electrical safety of properties in the rental sector and without any C2's it will not achieve it's intended aim as C3's can sit on the report forever and a day with no action needed to improve what maybe considered problem areas

From a legal point of view as with most things there will be no precedent set until someone dies and the legislation is tested by an inquest and then the finger of blame will be pointed amongst the parties involved and then no doubt other litigation will take place to decide who carries the can

From what has been posted by the OP it is difficult to take an overall view of the installation or the quality of the EICR but looking at the picture of the old Wylex board with some of the fuse base slots filled with silicone to prevent access to the live parts behind it rather than spending a few pence on proper blanks sets the acceptable level IMO very low from the letting agents side

From the OP I'm trying to understand who commissioned the EICR that the letting agent is downgrading as the way the OP reads it was the tenant that commissioned it which would then suggest there are some concerns about the safety of the installation

The agent contracted a company to do the EICR. Upon receipt their “electrical experts” have reviewed the report and disagree with many of the issues raised. Hence trying to downgrade C2s to C3

 

[brianmoooore]

has this company been informed of this?
How are they changing the certificate? Striking out what they don't like and writing in their version or producing a new certificate?
Who's signature is on the revised document, and are they aware of it?

 

[westward10]

It doesn't really matter what other parties think you have a Report with Code 2 issues and they need addressing.

 

[LauraCanning]

has this company been informed of this?
How are they changing the certificate? Striking out what they don't like and writing in their version or producing a new certificate?
Who's signature is on the revised document, and are they aware of it?

No one has actually amended the certificate. The agent emailed me and said the C2s aren’t correct so they’ve downgraded. No new paperwork has been issued.

 

[nicebutdim]

It doesn't really matter what other parties think you have a Report with Code 2 issues and they need addressing.

Surely the only way the opinion of other 'electrical experts' would be relevant, is if they carried out their own inspection and issued a new report?

 

[LauraCanning]

Surely the only way the opinion of other 'electrical experts' would be relevant, is if they carried out their own inspection and issued a new report?

That’s exactly what I thought!

 

[Vortigern]

What does the electrician who issued the EICR think of this novel "downgrading"? I must say if I received news such as that as an issuer I would take it up with the local building control.

 

[LauraCanning]

What does the electrician who issued the EICR think of this novel "downgrading"? I must say if I received news such as that as an issuer I would take it up with the local building control.

Unfortunately I have no way of contacting the original electrician. I would if I could!

 

[brianmoooore]

Isn't the tenant supposed to get a copy of the EICR?

 

[LauraCanning]

Isn't the tenant supposed to get a copy of the EICR?

Yes I have a copy of the EICR but I have no contact details for the individual

 

[brianmoooore]

If you have the full EICR, they should all be on there.
How many pages do you have?

 

[LauraCanning]

If you have the full EICR, they should all be on there.

Sadly it just says the company name which employs a large number of electricians so I am unable to speak to the individual.

 

[littlespark]

Sadly it just says the company name which employs a large number of electricians so I am unable to speak to the individual.

Well, you go to the company. They will know which electrician was sent to your property.

 

[brianmoooore]

I take it this is the company that issued the original and not the 'modified' version.
There should be a signature there, but I'm sure that the company would be interested to know that someone is changing the certs that they issued and put their signature to.

 

[nicebutdim]

I take it this is the company that issued the original and not the 'modified' version.
There should be a signature there, but I'm sure that the company would be interested to know that someone is changing the certs that they issued and put their signature to.

OP stated that cert hasn't been changed. The issue is a management company deciding that advice from their own electrical experts means no action needs to be taken in regard to the report's findings.

 

[LauraCanning]

Well, you go to the company. They will know which electrician was sent to your property.

My issue isn’t with the individual that carried out the EICR

 

[brianmoooore]

If that's the case, the letting agencies 'experts' should perform another EICR to supersede the existing one.

 

[LauraCanning]

I take it this is the company that issued the original and not the 'modified' version.
There should be a signature there, but I'm sure that the company would be interested to know that someone is changing the certs that they issued and put their signature to.

They haven’t actually amended the certificate. They have just said they won’t action the issues.

 

[nicebutdim]

They haven’t actually amended the certificate. They have just said they won’t action the issues.

Might be worth speaking to citizen's advice as I can't see them having a leg to stand on without paying for another report.

 

[brianmoooore]

The other acceptable alternative would be for the letting agents electrical experts to contact the original firm and to argue it out with them, to try to get them to amend the certificate. We all know that no two testers will come up with identical EICRs, so if the agent thinks the C2s should be C3s, then they should convince the original tester.

 

[Deleted account]

My issue isn’t with the individual that carried out the EICR

I know it’s not.

But if I issued or I was the owner of a company than one of my employees issue an EICR and had someone state it is wrong and refused to rectify the issues i would want to know.

I would be a bit miffed. I’d have strong words with letting agent and then report them to local building control / authority.

id remind them the max fine for this is now £30,000.00.

 

[Timbo]

I think BPG 4 suggests a C2 for this.
The regs have required this for nearly 15 years now, much longer than the requirement for domestic lighting circuits to have rcd protection (which bpg 4 suggests is a C3) so the two things aren’t entirely equal in one sense.

15th Edition 1981, Amended June 1987.
Reg 471-47. 35 years.

 

[Mike Johnson]

They haven’t actually amended the certificate. They have just said they won’t action the issues.

Have they said this in writing, if so ask when they will be issuing the revised EICR, because at the moment you have an EICR that requires remedial action within 28days of its issue date, if they refuse your next port of call is building control.