EICR Inspection Issue

[80Bobber]

I trained as a electrician in the 70s but have long since retired. Just had an EICR test done on my property in advance of selling. I have a 60s Bungalow that originally had wire fuses. I replaced them with MCBs 10 years ago. Assessor gave me a C3, is that reasonable? I got a C3 on the Lighting circuits due to no earth and a class 1 appliance. If I change it to a class 2 appliance should that become a C3?

 

[7029 dave]

I think the tester was quite lenient, class 1 fitting on a lighting circuit with no cpc would be a C2 . Even if you changed to class 2 it would still attract C3 All lighting circuits should be earthed.

 

[80Bobber]

I think the tester was quite lenient, class 1 fitting on a lighting circuit with no cpc would be a C2 . Even if you changed to class 2 it would still attract C3 All lighting circuits should be earthed.

I did get a C3 on the light. It seems many properties in the 60s had no earth in the lighting circuits!

 

[7029 dave]

I did get a C3 on the light. It seems many properties in the 60s had no earth in the lighting circuits!

Yes pre 1966 lighting circuits did not have to be earthed

 

[80Bobber]

Yes pre 1966 lighting circuits did not have to be earthed

My understanding is that upgrading is not a requirement and that provided class 2 appliances used it should be a C3.

 

[davesparks]

My understanding is that upgrading is not a requirement and that provided class 2 appliances used it should be a C3.

No, double or reinforced insulation is only permitted as a protective measure when the installation is under the supervision of an electrically competent person.
This is not applicable to a domestic installation.

 

[80Bobber]

No, double or reinforced insulation is only permitted as a protective measure when the installation is under the supervision of an electrically competent person.
This is not applicable to a domestic installation.

Forgot to mention this is a domestic property!

 

[davesparks]

Forgot to mention this is a domestic property!

It was fairly obvious when you said bungalow!

Double or reinforced insulation as a protective measure is not applicable to a domestic installation as it will not be under the supervision of a competent person.

 

[7029 dave]

Rewire would be the best solution

 

[westward10]

I would be concerned someone gave a Class I fitting with no earth a Code 3.

 

[pc1966]

The lack of CPC in pre-1966 light circuits is something that comes up from time to time and really the answer is a rewire to fix that and of course that the cable must be over 57 years old now. If you want to read up on the industry guidance then the Best Practice Guide #1 (covers this situation when doing a CU change) and #4 (suggests coding as C2 for any class I accessories, and C3 for class II, but that is lenient as the regs only allow that for supervised situations) are worth looking at, available for free here:

Best Practice Guides | Electrical Safety First

Electrical Safety First produces, in association with other industry bodies, a range of Best Practice Guides which provide definitive information and guidance on a range of technical subjects.

www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk

 

[80Bobber]

The lack of CPC in pre-1966 light circuits is something that comes up from time to time and really the answer is a rewire to fix that and of course that the cable must be over 57 years old now. If you want to read up on the industry guidance then the Best Practice Guide #1 (covers this situation when doing a CU change) and #4 (suggests coding as C2 for any class I accessories, and C3 for class II, but that is lenient as the regs only allow that for supervised situations) are worth looking at, available for free here:

Best Practice Guides | Electrical Safety First

Electrical Safety First produces, in association with other industry bodies, a range of Best Practice Guides which provide definitive information and guidance on a range of technical subjects.

www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk

Thanks for this, one question ‘What are supervised situations’?

 

[pc1966]

Thanks for this, one question ‘What are supervised situations’?

Ones where any changes are made by an electrically qualified person. Houses often have DIY changes to light switches and lights so you can't expect them to grasp the lack of CPC and need for it with Class I accessories.

 

[80Bobber]

Ones where any changes are made by an electrically qualified person. Houses often have DIY changes to light switches and lights so you can't expect them to grasp the lack of CPC and need for it with class II accessories.

Thanks again you have been very helpful

 

[pc1966]

My last sentence seems to read wrongly but the meaning should be CPC needed with class I, lack of CPC is only acceptable for class II (double insulated).

There can be alternatives to rewiring such as running in a separate CPC from a nearby circuit, but that is often as difficult as the rewiring aspect. Also assuming there is no metal conduit in use?

 

[pc1966]

I trained as a electrician in the 70s but have long since retired. Just had an EICR test done on my property in advance of selling.

I would add that you don't have to have an acceptable EICR (no C1/C2) to sell, but the buyer is likely to haggle for a price reduction if not. Whether you give them a couple of £k off, or not, or chose to upgrade first, is down to you.

My own suspicion is if they expect a modern house in terms of number/placement of sockets, type of lights, kitchen layout, etc, then they would want to rewire anyway, so the lack of CPC issue would go away when they do.

But those are decisions for you and the prospective buyer to consider.

 

[80Bobber]

I would add that you don't have to have an acceptable EICR (no C1/C2) to sell, but the buyer is likely to haggle for a price reduction if not. Whether you give them a couple of £k off, or not, or chose to upgrade first, is down to you.

My own suspicion is if they expect a modern house in terms of number/placement of sockets, type of lights, kitchen layout, etc, then they would want to rewire anyway, so the lack of CPC issue would go away when they do.

But those are decisions for you and the prospective buyer to consider.

Again many thanks for your help and advice

 

[80Bobber]

I would add that you don't have to have an acceptable EICR (no C1/C2) to sell, but the buyer is likely to haggle for a price reduction if not. Whether you give them a couple of £k off, or not, or chose to upgrade first, is down to you.

My own suspicion is if they expect a modern house in terms of number/placement of sockets, type of lights, kitchen layout, etc, then they would want to rewire anyway, so the lack of CPC issue would go away when they do.

But those are decisions for you and the prospective buyer to consider.

Just been thinking I have an unacceptable for no RCD in the consumer box and no earth on the lighting circuits, are they both valid C3s. Being quoted £3,300 to fix both.

 

[westward10]

The lack of earth is a Code 2 without a doubt, the lack of additional RCD protection can at worst be a Code 2.

 

[pc1966]

Just been thinking I have an unacceptable for no RCD in the consumer box and no earth on the lighting circuits, are they both valid C3s. Being quoted £3,300 to fix both.

No RCD for sockets likely to be used outdoors would normally be C2, otherwise C3. No CPC and no RCD on lights would be C2.

I can't really comment on the price as (a) I don't do domestic work and (b) prices up here in Scotland are significantly less than around London. I suspect for London if that is a CU change and rewiring of the light circuits it is probably reasonable, but again it would need a forum member who works around London to comment.

You don't need to get the same company/person who inspects to do the correction, but if you think they are good then no special reason to change. Usually the advice would be to get a 2nd quote, but again cheap is not always best.