Eicr question

[rapidrich]

If a shower was fitted 15 years back and had no rcd what cat would it be on a eicr

 

[Deservices]

Its code 3 regardless of bathroom bonding or not.
From the ESC EICR guidlines giving examples of C3's ;

"Absence of RCD protection in a location containing a bath or shower where satisfactory suplementary bonding is present "

Its all there , clear as crystal but nobody could be arsed looking the facts up properly.
Apart from me ;-)

Doesn't that say its code 3 if it has bonding?

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Where is the link to this please Biff, I can't find it on their site. Or are you looking at an old leaflet?

 

[Guest55]

Where is the link to this please Biff, I can't find it on their site. Or are you looking at an old leaflet?

Why ? dont you believe me lol ?

Best practice guides : Electrical Safety Council

guide no. 4 , bottom of page 15.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Deservices - Do you have a link to it please?

 

[Guest55]

Doesn't that say its code 3 if it has bonding?

yes.
and its still code 3 if it doesnt.
but its code 2 for missing bonding if all bathroom circuits arent rcd'd

 

[martinxxxxxx]

But that says the opposite of what you are saying
It says exactly what I have said that it does depend on whether the Supp bonding is present

 

[martinxxxxxx]

So what I originally said is correct, there is also a case for a higher coding for rented accommodation don't you think?

 

[Guest55]

not really.
maybe more frequent insections tho.

 

[Guest55]

But that says the opposite of what you are saying
It says exactly what I have said that it does depend on whether the Supp bonding is present

good grief man , i'm trying to assist you.
it says nothing of the sort.
put whatever you like on the report.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

You not assisting anyone by misquoting a document.
I was assisting with Properly Sourced and linked information quoted verbatim

 

[martinxxxxxx]

On my reports I will only put things that can be justified by the industry advice or the regs. I will be able to say where an opinion came from. I think this is important myself.


You Said
Its code 3 regardless of bathroom bonding or not.
From the ESC EICR guidlines giving examples of C3's ;

​

But the document you referred to said

Absence of RCD protection for circuits of a
location containing a bath or shower where
satisfactory supplementary bonding is present

Good greif man if you are gonna be arsed to look it up - quote it right too!

 

[somersetsparks]

I would be wound up if someone gave a c2 to my non rcd'd shower. As I say it was compliant to install up until 4 years ago, it's not 'potentially dangerous'. That's just drumming for work imo Supplementary bonding is an adequate.
What did we do before these wonder rcd's came about!

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Yes but do you rent your house out?
If you did the Landlord and Tenant Act plus the insurance for letting might make you feel it is better to have the place kept to the latest editions of the wiring regs. Professional landlords in my experience want to be watertight when it comes to insurance

 

[martinxxxxxx]

What did we do before these wonder rcd's came about!

Some people died - so they made them put them on the lawnmowers - then the downstairs, then the upstairs then the lights.
Some call it progress others wonder if health and safety hasn't gone mad - but they are mostly those who have not lost loved ones to electrical accidents.

 

[Des 56]

Rcds are nice little items for giving that little bit of extra back up (TT excepted), however, well constructed and maintained electrical systems are the best target

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Rcds are nice little items for giving that little bit of extra back up (TT excepted), however, well constructed and maintained electrical systems are the best target

I think the (TT Excepted) gives the game away here.
They provide additional protection against electric shocks - over and above what even the best designed electrical system can achieve without them.
They are not an excuse for poor design, however if main bonding is in place, and the system is properly maintained and constructed, it is well accepted that supplementary bonding may be omitted.
That is the point of having the test of whether RCD is a required in the latest regs page 199, 701.415.2

If you are auguring that the we should return to the 15th editions or something - actually that's not what you are suggesting is it?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

That's what I've all ways thought but a sparky has gone to do some wrk there and said it should be cat 2

it int a 2....you base an EICR on what was compliant AT THE TIME OF INSTALL....

 

[martinxxxxxx]

I am guessing you have not read any of the responses so far

But you are correct as long as it fulfils the requirements of 701.415.2

 

[dagrat]

I agree with martinxxxx here. The best practice guide recommends that where there is no rcd protection and no supplementary bonding then it definitely is a C2.
But remember to carry out a continuity test to check whether there is supplementary bonding or not.

Yes the test is carried out to check compliance with regs at time of install and anything which is not to current regs is a C3. However don't forget that the requirement for supplementary bonding in the bathroom was still a requirement in the previous editions of Bs 7671

 

[somersetsparks]

Lets be clear, on an EICR.

Lack of RCD protection to a circuit in the bathroom attracts a C3 providing proper supplementary bonding is in place
Lack of RCD protection to a circuit in the bathroom attracts a C2 if no supplementary bonding is in place
Cables buried above 50mm in a Wall attract C3

I always check supplementary bonding is proper and covers all points including radiators etc. if necessary - Readings should be 0.05 or below.

So a bathroom wired to the 16th could easily attract 4 C3's

A C2 for a shower is over zealous if supplementary bonding is in place.
I have worked testing for a social landlord, they would never ask for RCDS on all showers regardless, the cost could be huge for virtually no gain in safety. They will insist on enclosed bathroom fittings, even if outside of zones.