Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. Safe?

[ummidris]

I've recently had a complete rewire. It's been a nightmare. Electrician called back once because cables not properly chased in and some wires left exposed. Now I am securring the floorboards he had taken up and cables are running in the same groove cut into the joists for the central heating pipes. I've asked a plumber who says this is not acceptable.

I could cut another notch in the joist to seperate the cables from pipes, but this would still mean the cables are sitting just under the bedroom floorboards. Is this acceptable? I have been told it will make my completion certificate invalid.

Should I get him back to rerun the cables through the joists (holes are allready there from previous wiring)? To be honest I have little faith in him, but I have little money too and can't afford another contractor.

Any advice?

 

[timo1]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

Its difficult to say without looking at it, but what you have described sounds less than ideal. I would talk to the electrician and ask him to rectify, cables and pipes should be seperated, and cables protected properly from nails if in notches. If you cannot resolve the issue then you can contact his scheme provider (niceic, napit, elecsa) Hopefully he is a scheme member...

 

[trev]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

A bit more info first please mate.
What was there first, the heating pipes or the cables?
Why do you have to refix the flooboards? or are you lifting them to have a look?
There are regulations relating to how cables should be ran but there are also "get out clauses" if you have to run them another way.
If there are any issues arising from your rewire it's up to the installer (and you) imho to get your heads together to reach a satisfactory conclusion. Maybe you guys should get together over a cup of tea.
Let us know how you get on and maybe we can advise a bit better

 

[OhmSweetOhm]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

From how I've read it, since it's a rewire the pipes would have been there before he started. Doesn't make sense to me why he didn't just run the cables through the holes which were already being used by the previous cables. Strange.

 

[ummidris]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

Thanks. I did get an Elecsa certificate, so I guess if it's not resolved I could contact them. Far from ideal though as I have redecorated and am waiting to relay the flooring. The hassle of the kids bedroom floorboards coming up again is not an attractive prospect!

 

[ummidris]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

Hi, A bit more info. Yeap you are right Jamie the pipes were already there. After the rewire the floorboards were not nailed or screwed back down so I was doing that ready to put the laminate back down.

I have contacted the electrician and told him my concerns. I just want to make sure I know what is acceptable and not before we talk.

As for the layout, the joists all have holes drilled through them from the previous wiring which he replaced.I have no idea why he chose to run the wires with the pipes and at the top of the joists when it would have been easy to poke them through the holes at the time.

I don't want to be fussy or awkward but I do want my rewire to be safe and comply with the regulations and at the moment I'm not convinced it does.

 

[Guest123]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

This 'spark' sounds like a right tool.

laying cables in notches occupied by plumbing pipework is absolute pants!!

It is acceptable to run cables in a notch at the top of a joist but consideration needs to be given to the strength of the joist before you notch it again as there are regulations on size, depth & proximity to existing notches etc. Also a steel plate should be placed over the cables after they have been placed in the notch.


I would indeed ask the 'spark' to come back and rectify this as IMO it is totally un-accepatble.

 

[jase]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

go on elecsa website and check to see if he is indeed registered with them and not just got hold of some certs from somewhere, it is not best practice to run cables in notches but is allowed so long as adequate mechanical protection is provided so as to prevent penetration of the cable from nails and screws etc, does sound a bit lazy to me to have run these cables in the notches when holes already exist.

 

[telectrix]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

cables shouyld be > 50mm below top of joist. iof it's necessary to run in notches, then a steel cable protectopr must be fitted to prevent penetration of cable by screws, nails etc.

 

[ummidris]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

Thanks for all of your advice. I know what to expect from him now. He is registered with Elecsa, I've just checked. As for the cables there was no steel protection, they were just squeezed in with the heating pipes. As the joists have holes for the cables I see no reason why he can't run them through. It's what I'll say to him.

 

[telectrix]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

sounds like bone idleness coupled with incompetence.

 

[sedgy34]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

i dont agree with laying cables in notched joists, but unless we have a clear picture you dont know what the spark was up against the op mentions laminate flooring too.

 

[dichroic]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

Im not sure what to make of this post?

An electrician registered with Elecsa rewired a domestic property and ran brand new cabling directly alongside central heating pipes? Apart from the obvious regulation regarding detrimental influences on an electrical installation, the cables will be derated by about 100% when the central heating system is running.

In addition to these problems there are existing drilled holes in the floor joists from where the original cabling was sited?

Is it me?????

Dichroic

 

[Top Cat]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

One thought, are these cables the old cables that the electrician just did not take out? Worth thinking about before you have a rant at him. I would hate you to have egg on your face, the boards in question may have been left lose by the plumber years ago and the electrician may not have had those boards up at all!

 

[Edd]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

One thought, are these cables the old cables that the electrician just did not take out? Worth thinking about before you have a rant at him. I would hate you to have egg on your face, the boards in question may have been left lose by the plumber years ago and the electrician may not have had those boards up at all!

Been there before, it seems plumbers like to tear boards up and never refix them.. we come in, run some cables and it doesnt matter what boards we lifted and refixed, we are to blame for the lot..
Someone needs to teach plumbers to lift boards without tearing them to bits..
saying that, running any cable in a joist notch is p i ss poor practice. and if they are running next to pipes then im sure that he hasent taken into account cables being subject to external influances.

 

[Guitarist]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

Sounds like he just couldn't be bothered to thread the cables through the original holes and just thought that it would be far easier to lay them in existing pipe notches. I'm assuming he took the old cable out for the scrap value?
Do not do anything yourself. You have paid a professional to do the work and it is up to him to make sure it is left in a compliant condition which satisfies your original agreement.
It is important that all "talks" remain calm and civilised. Give him every opportunity to put the work right before you get too stressed

 

[PC Electrics]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

Have you actualy paid in full for this work or have you still got some to pay?


You are sure the cables you can see are the new cables and not old cables that simply haven't been removed?

Assuming they are new, then that's just pants. Contravens a number of regulations.

 

[telectrix]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

are you sure it was a spark who did this and not a retrained plumber? awww can't have been. the floorboards are still useable.

 

[PC Electrics]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

Maybe you could tell us what area you live. Someone here may know who his ELECSA assessor is.

I know that in my early days, my ELECSA assessor questioned me at length on my knowledge of the building regs, especially part A. As well as acceptable zones etc etc. I showed him a rewire for my second asessment and he was quite thorough. So I would suspect that this is deliberately sloppy workmanship rather than a lack of knowledge.

 

[telectrix]

Re: Electric Cables on top of bedroom floor joists, touching central heating pipes. S

Maybe you could tell us what area you live. Someone here may know who his ELECSA assessor is.

I know that in my early days, my ELECSA assessor questioned me at length on my knowledge of the building regs, especially part A. As well as acceptable zones etc etc. I showed him a rewire for my second asessment and he was quite thorough. So I would suspect that this is deliberately sloppy workmanship rather than a lack of knowledge.

yeah, but that was then. nowadays with these scams, if you know brown from blue, you're in , as long as the £500 is paid.