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  1. tom1972
    Offline

    tom1972 EF Member

    Location:
    Swindon
    Hi,
    If a house is fitted with non-fire rated downlighters between the ground and first floor back when this was common, should they need to be replaced before the property could get a safety certificate?
    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  2. Taylortwocities
    Offline

    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    They do not need replacing. Like many urban myths, there is no requirement to fit fire-rated downlights, anywhere, unless the ceiling (that you have turned into a swiss cheese) is a fire-rated ceiling.
    Fire-rated ceilings are only commonly found between purpose-built apartments and in places like the ceilings of integrated garages.

    PS What sort of "safety" certificate are you after, and why do you need it?
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
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  3. tom1972
    Offline

    tom1972 EF Member

    Location:
    Swindon
    Thanks for the reply. It's a rented property. It didn't fail the last check 3 years ago so I'm suspicious it shouldn't need to be updated.
     
  4. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Are you the owner or spark?
     
  5. Midwest
    Offline

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    I thought they put plasterboard up the protect the wooden joists from premature failure, in the event of a fire; or is it just to look pretty then?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Bad Spelling Bad Spelling x 1
  6. tom1972
    Offline

    tom1972 EF Member

    Location:
    Swindon
    I'm the landlord of the property
     
  7. Taylortwocities
    Offline

    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    @Midwest@Midwest I’m hoping that’s a serious question?
    You should know that Plasterboard will provide a degree of fire protection. A single sheet of 12.5mm Gyproc is estimated to deliver up to 30 Minutes of fire resistance BUT when standard domestic house plans are made there is no inter-floor fire resistance requirement.
    Why not? Just stand at the bottom of your stairs and estimate the fire delaying characteristics of that 13-step chimney!

    So there’s no practical reason to stop up downlight holes with intumescent materials.

    If the ceiling IS a fire barrier
    See
    What is the fire resistance performance of Gyproc plasterboard - https://www.british-gypsum.com/technical-advice/faqs/050-what-is-the-fire-resistance-performance-of-gyproc-plasterboard
    Then the integrity must be maintained, but not unless it is a fire compartment that has been compromised.

    You may way to take a risk assessment and say, it’s my daughters room above the kitchen so I want fire-rated fittings. It’s up to you. My choice would be to plan how I get her from her bedroom and out of the house, when the stairs are on fire.
     
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  8. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Have you got a new EICR with a C2 against these lights?

    If so please go back and ask for the reg number to back up the decision
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
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  9. tom1972
    Offline

    tom1972 EF Member

    Location:
    Swindon
    That was essentially my understanding from reading around too although I suspect I would fit fire rated if I were replacing them anyway.

    Should it get a certificate with the existing downlights or were all the previous electricians who passed it wrong? It has had a certificate every 3 years(ish).
     
  10. tom1972
    Offline

    tom1972 EF Member

    Location:
    Swindon
    The electrician said he needs to replace all of them before he can issue the certificate so I have no code at this point. I'm not sure what you mean about the reg number in this context?
     
  11. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    To give a C2 there needs to be a code.

    Suggest you email them and see what they say.

    Also Googleb electrical safety Best practice guide number 4, issue 4 and print and read

    hope this helps
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Midwest
    Offline

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    @Midwest@Midwest I’m hoping that’s a serious question?
    You should know that Plasterboard will provide a degree of fire protection. A single sheet of 12.5mm Gyproc is estimated to deliver up to 30 Minutes of fire resistance BUT when standard domestic house plans are made there is no inter-floor fire resistance requirement.
    Why not? Just stand at the bottom of your stairs and estimate the fire delaying characteristics of that 13-step chimney!

    So there’s no practical reason to stop up downlight holes with intumescent materials.

    If the ceiling IS a fire barrier
    See
    What is the fire resistance performance of Gyproc plasterboard - https://www.british-gypsum.com/technical-advice/faqs/050-what-is-the-fire-resistance-performance-of-gyproc-plasterboard
    Then the integrity must be maintained, but not unless it is a fire compartment that has been compromised.

    You may way to take a risk assessment and say, it’s my daughters room above the kitchen so I want fire-rated fittings. It’s up to you. My choice would be to plan how I get her from her bedroom and out of the house, when the stairs are on fire.[/QUOTE]


    Last time I checked all rooms leading to my stair case have doors; albeit not fire doors but would go some way to negate the spread of fires. That's why you should close them at night, before retiring to bed. Surely you'll see the fire safety videos, to know that.

    We also required to reinstate any holes we make in the structure of a domestic building, to the same level of fire protection as previously, to prevent the spread of fire. As I was alluding to, one of the reasons for using plasterboard, is to prevent the premature failure of structural timbers. Its also why non metallic cable clips, can be used above etc etc. So cutting large holes into plasterboard, and leaving them, would stop this simple system from functioning.

    Of course there are specific building regulations to fire safety, but this does not exclude good practice.

    Electrical Safety First Best Practise Guide 5 is an interesting read, and may be useful to the OP;

    Best Practice Guides - https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/electrical-professionals/best-practice-guides/

     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Pete999
    Offline

    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Business Name:
    None
    Can you please answer this question^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     
  14. Spoon
    Offline

    Spoon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    What @Murdoch@Murdoch is getting at is your electrician can't just say "he needs to replace all of them before he can issue the certificate" unless he specifies what electrical regulation the original lights are not complying with. This will have a regulation number.
    As @Murdoch@Murdoch says, email your electrician and get them to explain why they all need replacing and what electrical regulation they are going against. State that you would like the reply in an email so that you have written proof of this conversation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  15. tom1972
    Offline

    tom1972 EF Member

    Location:
    Swindon
    The certificate is not required, but as its a rented property I like to know there isn't something lurking in there.
     
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