Electrics nearby dog washing station?

[cookci]

Hi,

We are extending our kitchen and putting a "dog washing station" in the corner of the room which is basically a small shower cubical with a bidet hose (hose is going to be plumbed in about 1M above the ground level)

Do you know what the legal requirements would be in terms of electrics nearby for this? Nobody seems to know.

I understand if it was a normal shower then sockets need to be 3M's away

Thanks

 

[Spoon]

Welcome to the forum.
IMO. I would treat it as a shower and use the same rules.

 

[cookci]

Which i guess is tricky as the kitchen is open plan?

surely there needs to be walls defining the edge of the bathroom or is it literally just 3 meters from the outer wall of the shower base?

 

[Bobster]

Which i guess is tricky as the kitchen is open plan?

surely there needs to be walls defining the edge of the bathroom or is it literally just 3 meters from the outer wall of the shower base?

This link may help:

https://electrical.------.org/wirin...on-701-locations-containing-a-bath-or-shower/

 

[cookci]

Maybe there is something we could do differently with the dog washing station to make it acceptable to have electrics nearby?

If you google pictures "dog washing station" then quite alot of the pictures show nearby electrical devices

 

[Spoon]

Maybe there is something we could do differently with the dog washing station to make it acceptable to have electrics nearby?

If you google pictures "dog washing station" then quite alot of the pictures show nearby electrical devices

What electrical devices are needed near the washing station?
For drying the dogs can you not just move them away from the wash station and then dry them?

 

[telectrix]

or use a towel like us peasants do. hair dryers are for poofdas poodles.

 

[Deleted account]

No socket from egde of shower for 3 meters.
This is the rule for a room containing a bath or shower as well as other rules.
Link on post 4 says it all.

Other rules are any circuits supplying or passing through a room containing a bath or shower should be RCD protected.

 

[Midwest]

Unless your dogs are showering themselves, the humans are primarily the main concern. Just pointing that out.

 

[richy3333]

I agree with the advice/comments made. Treat as a shower basin. Special location regs apply. What does the electrical contractor your using say?

 

[davesparks]

I would say you need to take the regulations for showers and maybe apply a little bit of a a common sense adjustment to suit your particular scenario.

 

[ferg]

It's probably not that different to a sink with a spray hose type thing.

The regs for bath and shower are primarily for the butt nakedness and covered in water thing.
At least that is my understanding of it.

 

[cookci]

We aren’t using one yet, was hoping to just get it signed off instead

Apparently BS7671 doesn’t apply to dogs but it does to sheep and cows but like you say dogs don’t wash themselves!

I think I can get away with sticking to the zones but might struggle with the tv the wife wants!

There is one socket with 2metres but it’s in a cupboard with a brick back to it (previous outside wall) so I assume that’s ok? The brick side is facing the shower.

Also there is another existing socket about 2.8 metres but is Round a corner (30cm brick wall). Not sure about this one

Can I just install a 12v TV in there and keep the transformer a good distance away?

 

[Deleted account]

If you want it signed off it would be up to the spark doing the sign off what they would accept

 

[cookci]

Basically we are having our kitchen extended and in the corner of the new extension we are having this dog wash station but now some of the preexisting kitchen bits are going to be within the 3metres. I was only going to get the spark to sign off the new wiring we do though

We are doing the build to building regs however but I don’t think the inspector is interested in any of the electrics as long as it’s been signed off?

 

[pirate]

"Apparently BS7671 doesn’t apply to dogs but it does to sheep and cows but like you say dogs don’t wash themselves! "

Well, to be fair, they do wash "bits" of themselves...
...because they can!

 

[davesparks]

I was only going to get the spark to sign off the new wiring we do though

Have you got an electrician lined up to do this for you already?

If not you need to be aware that they will need to see the design and cable calculations before you start, inspect first and second fix as well as complete the testing and certification. Also they will only be able to sign off the inspection and testing, you will need to sign in the boxes for the design and construction.

You should also note a lot of us will refuse to do this kind of job because signing off someone else's work opens us up to liability.

 

[richy3333]

We aren’t using one yet, was hoping to just get it signed off instead

Apparently BS7671 doesn’t apply to dogs but it does to sheep and cows but like you say dogs don’t wash themselves!

I think I can get away with sticking to the zones but might struggle with the tv the wife wants!

There is one socket with 2metres but it’s in a cupboard with a brick back to it (previous outside wall) so I assume that’s ok? The brick side is facing the shower.

Also there is another existing socket about 2.8 metres but is Round a corner (30cm brick wall). Not sure about this one

Can I just install a 12v TV in there and keep the transformer a good distance away?

I'd disagree with your comment re 7671 not applying to dogs. Where does it state that? It refers to livestock in numerous places, particularly under definitions but does not in itself define what livestock is.

The free dictionary.com livestock - https://www.thefreedictionary.com/livestock
defines livestock as Domestic animals, such as cattle or horses, raised for home use or for profit, especially on a farm. A dog is a domestic animal albeit not a horse or cattle.

Part 4 of 7671 refers to protective measures of persons, livestock and property. In a similar vain are we to argue (for example) that a shed is not property?

Section 130 regular refers to livestock and the associated hazards and under Part 2 there is a definition of 'arrangements for livestock keeping' stating buildings or rooms (housing of animals, cages, runs and other containers used for the continuous accommodation of livestock.

I'm guessing as I have no evidence that dogs might be less conductive than humans but once hosed in water will still potentially have an easy path for current to pass along/through.

Thats just my take on it anyway.

If you sockets are where you say they are then I'd not be too worried. As for the TV maybe the wifey has to put up with it being somewhere else?

 

[Intoelectrics]

Its a tricky one. But ultimately my thinking from a court of law perspective it would come down to what the definition of a "shower" is regarded as and its intended purpose. The OP states that its going to be a "small shower cubicle" in which case it would be regarded (my opinion) as a "shower" by definition of the regs and therefore special locations regs would be applicable. But as its designed for a domestic animal and the person cleaning the animal is not likely to be naked in the shower themselves (unless you are into that sort of thing) then in principal its no different than a shower hose attachment you get on a kitchen sink, in which case common sense should prevail. But then one could argue, if you throw out common sense, that the shower could be used by a small child.

 

[cookci]

I’ve heard some people use kitchen sinks to wash their babies with plug sockets 30cm away.

It’s very confusing all this!
Not convinced dogs could ever be called livestock

 

[Deleted account]

I’ve heard some people use kitchen sinks to wash their babies with plug sockets 30cm away.

It’s very confusing all this!
Not convinced dogs could ever be called livestock

Yes the requirements are vast and take years to learn so it’s not suprising your confused.

But to us sparkies it’s simple a room containing a bath or shower must comply with the regulations in order to be able to certify and notify to local authority.

As for dog and livestock. I have worked in cat and dog kennels and I apply the same regs to that as agricultural and livestock because that is what they are.

 

[Spoon]

I’ve heard some people use kitchen sinks to wash their babies with plug sockets 30cm away.

It’s very confusing all this!
Not convinced dogs could ever be called livestock

You can spin this to suit what you want mate.
I'm presuming this is a business. If any of the customers beloved pet poochie get killed by electrocution then they will be trying to sue you for every penny you have. If your electrics are not as per regs and you don't have all the proper electrical certs then their solicitors will have a good case to sue you.

 

[Intoelectrics]

I’ve heard some people use kitchen sinks to wash their babies with plug sockets 30cm away.

It’s very confusing all this!
Not convinced dogs could ever be called livestock

Been there myself, I remember my mum using the kitchen sink to bath me and my sisters when we were little. Saved on hot water consumption and if you were lucky enough to be the oldest (which i was) you went in first followed by your younger siblings.

 

[telectrix]

can't see a dog with wet paws plugging in the hairdryer whatever, or sticking his claws into a socket outlet. common sense comes into the equation here, IMO.

 

[Spoon]

Been there myself, I remember my mum using the kitchen sink to bath me and my sisters when we were little. Saved on hot water consumption and if you were lucky enough to be the oldest (which i was) you went in first followed by your younger siblings.

I'm tight and just kick the kids outside when its raining. Job done..

 

[Intoelectrics]

You can spin this to suit what you want mate.
I'm presuming this is a business. If any of the customers beloved pet poochie get killed by electrocution then they will be trying to sue you for every penny you have. If your electrics are not as per regs and you don't have all the proper electrical certs then their solicitors will have a good case to sue you.

If its a business then yes they will have to take the responsibility to ensure that the electrics and equipment are suitable for purpose, safe and in good working order, which as you say means I&T and PAT and any other building regs, insurance etc... is in place.
[automerge]1567769111[/automerge]

I'm tight and just kick the kids outside when its raining. Job done..

Well its bucketing down here where I am so might get the imperial leather out and have my yearly bath!
[automerge]1567769208[/automerge]

can't see a dog with wet paws plugging in the hairdryer whatever, or sticking his claws into a socket outlet. common sense comes into the equation here, IMO.

Obviously you never watched Britain's Got Talent then?

 

[telectrix]

Well its bucketing down here where I am so might get the imperial leather out and have my yearly bath!

you've got no excuse for not bathing all year round. Birmingham's got more canals than Venice.

 

[Intoelectrics]

Well its bucketing down here where I am so might get the imperial leather out and have my yearly bath!

you've got no excuse for not bathing all year round. Birmingham's got more canals than Venice.

Yeah but we use them for the toilet

 

[telectrix]

is that why they call it the black country?

 

[littlespark]

Livestock. The clue is in the name.

It is stock, that someone uses in a business to buy and sell to make profit. Like a tin of beans on a supermarket shelf.
Difference is it is alive. Hence live-stock.

Dogs are pets. Unless you specifically breed them for meat.


There’s a dog groomer near me that hasnt thought of electrical safety. There’s a bath in one wall, with shower hose, a double socket on the opposite wall, and not an rcd to be seen.
The room must only be a couple of metres square.

 

[DefyG]

We are doing the build to building regs however but I don’t think the inspector is interested in any of the electrics as long as it’s been signed off?

Usually only if electrician is registered with a relevant scheme to notify under regulation Part P