emergency light help

[Peter Major Kp]

hi every one im new on here but needed to clear something up.

I work for an electrical firm on larger commercial type install so my knowledge is better suited there but im having a dispute with a company that installed emergency lighting in my communal areas at home.

I came home from work and say a shiney cheap bulk head slapped on the ceiling one eve, slightly curious i stuck my head into the mains cupboard under the stairs and saw there was just a key switch and cable running into the board.
I was thinking this needs and rcd....
so I popped the cover off and they just stuck the new cable in with the old lighting mcb. Now I have always know this as bad practise and would never do it personally. after reading online get the same answer some say yes its fine others say its not.

so I messaged the management company and voiced my concerns. i got a reply from them this after noon with an attached reply from the installer.

his reply said the work dose not require rcd protection as its surface wired in mini trunking. now i know this to be true but as i had looked in the loft and the cable has been aimed across and not clipped or contained this means it should be rcd protected?

his next point was that it was fine to put 2 cables in to a breaker and had got confirmation from the ECA before doing this. I still cant find a yes or no answer on if this is correct. but to my knolwedge if he works on that circuit he has to bring it into line with current regs.

he also said this engineers had run out of dual colour stickers but still 3-4 weeks later they have not been put on or supplied test certs for the work. im unsure of this companys workma




so to summary what i would like to know

*is it ok for 2 cables in one mcb? if so should it be rcd protected?
* should the new circuit have rcd protection as its not all run surface?


would be happy with people opinion and some hard facts to prove me right or wrong


thanks in advance!!!

 

[Andy78]

No RCD protection is required from what you have described, and the EM light should share the same OCPD as the lighting in the area it serves.
Nothing wrong with 2 cables in the same MCB.

Install sounds slightly shoddy though, but probably compliant.

 

[telectrix]

from your post, the only thing i can see wrong is the cable just chucked in the loft. it should be clipped and routed towards the low part of the loft ( towards the eaves,) where it's not likely to suffer damage when someone's size 9's clump about up there.

 

[MDJ]

Song and dance comes to mind

 

[Peter Major Kp]

but i was under the impression that cables in a builds structure or not visible need to be protected? as whats to stop some one drilling into it?

 

[telectrix]

nope. only if buried in a wall < 50mm deep and not with an earthed sheath. the idea is to protect against a nail or screw penetrating the cable and becoming live.

 

[Andy78]

but i was under the impression that cables in a builds structure or not visible need to be protected?

Not at all. If installed in trunking or surface clipped ( as this install sounds like it is) then no need for RCD protection.

Think you need to look at BS7671 as the requirements for RCD protection are more specific than your general understanding.

 

[Peter Major Kp]

as i stated my background is larger commercial and industrial side so i work to drawings and specs that have already be designed and approved.

 

[Peter Major Kp]

can you point me in the right direction of the area i need to look in that big damn book?

 

[Andy78]

Section 3.6 in the OSG is easier reading if you don't like wading through the big book.

 

[telectrix]

reg.no. 522.6.101

 

[Wiresandthings]

As already said, nothing wrong apart from lack of clipping in loft. Did the management company ask you to have a poke about with the communal area electrical system?? If not i wouldn't go telling them you've been taking CU covers off!! Unless of course you own the building!

 

[Knobhead]

as i stated my background is larger commercial and industrial side so i work to drawings and specs that have already be designed and approved.

So you’re a cable money? Why don’t you know the answer to you’re question?

PS
Drawings aren’t the be all and end all on a job. They often don’t tally. What do you do then?

How about checking things for yourself?

 

[onions1066]

So you’re a cable money? Why don’t you know the answer to you’re question?

PS
Drawings aren’t the be all and end all on a job. They often don’t tally. What do you do then?

How about checking things for yourself?

Peter major meet tony

 

[Peter Major Kp]

So you’re a cable money? Why don’t you know the answer to you’re question?

PS
Drawings aren’t the be all and end all on a job. They often don’t tally. What do you do then?

How about checking things for yourself?

nope im not a cable monkey . My main work is sub mains, busbar, ups system, LED conversion, shop fits. I dont often do this side of things, i have lived in oz for 2 years since i did my 17th edition and didnt do any spark work out there so its not all on the tip of my tounge. I do have a social life so dont read the big red book before bed each night

i was asking advice on an area i was not 100% sure on, i thought it best to ask opinions of people that know the book inside and out rather than sit down scratch my head and make my own interpretation of what i read to suit my needs. maybe i got the wrong idea of a forum?


any way thanks to the helpfull people that have commented

and like a man in orthopaedic shoes, i stand corrected!

 

[shanky887614]

nope im not a cable monkey . My main work is sub mains, busbar, ups system, LED conversion, shop fits. I dont often do this side of things, i have lived in oz for 2 years since i did my 17th edition and didnt do any spark work out there so its not all on the tip of my tounge. I do have a social life so dont read the big red book before bed each night

i was asking advice on an area i was not 100% sure on, i thought it best to ask opinions of people that know the book inside and out rather than sit down scratch my head and make my own interpretation of what i read to suit my needs. maybe i got the wrong idea of a forum?


any way thanks to the helpfull people that have commented

and like a man in orthopaedic shoes, i stand corrected!

its a green book now mate

 

[Peter Major Kp]

its a green book now mate

like i said i been out the loop

 

[dazza1981]

Do you not think you should of got your facts right before emailing them slating there work?

 

[KAS1]

Not much wrong with the install, maybe a subbie on a price.......... in and out in 5 mins lol

 

[Peter Major Kp]

Do you not think you should of got your facts right before emailing them slating there work?

maybe i should but i didnt want payment to be made to then so wanted to raise the issue. This still dosnt mean they can do poor install work

 

[dazza1981]

Agreed throwing the cable in the loft is not the greatest!
But surely you should of done your homework before you started interfeering with other sparks work and slating it!
It is very frustrating when someone feels they have a right to have a dig at other peoples work and when they have little or no knowledge themselves!

 

[Peter Major Kp]

Agreed throwing the cable in the loft is not the greatest!
But surely you should of done your homework before you started interfeering with other sparks work and slating it!
It is very frustrating when someone feels they have a right to have a dig at other peoples work and when they have little or no knowledge themselves!

there is also no warning labels fixed and other pretty ****ty install methods used. maybe im used to having people to check we do things right in the first place, but this is why i have asked advice and am currently righting the reply email

 

[Guitarist]

. I do have a social life so dont read the big red book before bed each night

Don't read the regs before bed every night??? How do you get to sleep man?

 

[shanky887614]

there is also no warning labels fixed and other pretty ****ty install methods used. maybe im used to having people to check we do things right in the first place, but this is why i have asked advice and am currently righting the reply email

nothing wrong with the install method they used, its rough but thats it.


and its writing.

might be worth grabbing a spellchecker if your going to criticize other people through email etc, they will read it laugh and probably ignore it

 

[dazza1981]

What will be your response to there email?..........SORRY 4 STICKING MY NOSE IN TO OTHER PEOPLES WORK WHEN I DONT HAVE MY FACTS STRAIGHT????

 

[telectrix]

oooohhh, pickyyyy.

 

[Peter Major Kp]

nothing wrong with the install method they used, its rough but thats it.


and its writing.

might be worth grabbing a spellchecker if your going to criticize other people through email etc, they will read it laugh and probably ignore it

Thanks for your concern about my spelling I do suffer from dyspraxia and do send my emails to be proof read normally for any thing official.

Also if we are going to be really ---- and correct other peoples spelling its actually SPELL CHECKER not all one word. thanks for your input though

 

[Guest55]

whoa ,lets back up a minute here ,

maybe i should but i didnt want payment to be made to then so wanted to raise the issue.

so you took apart another sparks work......
totally misunderstood virtually every electrical requirement regards to the work.........
sent a one sided , uninformed email of complaint..........
and to add insult to injury , tried to stop payment for work done in good faith and generally acceptable if not a tad slapdash ?

lets hope i never inspect your work , i'd spoil your day big time.