Employed/Self Employed?

[Spudnik]

As above really chaps.

Just interested to know.

Vote away!

 

[prgil74]

As above really chaps.

Just interested to know.

Vote away!

went self employed last september after old employer lost big contract so had no choice was good for first three months then nothing over xmas done some subcontract work after that and just seem to be getting lots small jobs which means lots of running around not earning any money have decided to go back to employed work and setup job at a chemical plant for end of month will miss the freedom but not the lack off money and paperwork maybe things would have been better if i had a bigger client list so may give it a go again next year also seems to be a lot of sparks out there fighting for jobs.

 

[ashrow]

Self employed is the way to go (i have been self employed since i was 21) i started up on my own and love it. I have been knocked (not paid) a few times by clients that know how to/ or will never pay but i love the fact i can do what i like, when i like and when a client is happy its with me a not a company i work for. (but if your thinking of going S/E it is not easy going with the paper work, accounts, tax man etc.... you cant claim if you have no work and please think about a pension !!)

Ash

 

[jbec-john]

I've been self employed now since 06-06-06.
My previous employer had become very unreliable with payment to the point where he owed me in the region of £5000. I knew I couldn't carry on like that, and I knew that if I left he had no-one who could run the vast majority of his jobs.
I didn't actively seek any of his work, but after 2 weeks of no-one turning up on site, everyone rang me to see if I could take the work over anyway. It was a nice kick start, but I never saw the money he owed me.

Early 2007 was tough, with hardly any work about. I muddled through, and ever since October 2007 I've been really busy

 

[opm electrical]

went S/E in august this year after i finised college and my father in law suggested i start doing the electrics for his building firm. i was working for a guy up until summer last year when things went quiet so i went to work for a plastics firm to pay the bills so now im still working there and working evenings and weekend trying to find enough work so i can make the break and go full time self employed

 

[nervouselk]

Me too also looking at going S/E as i have just been made redundant, but i need to get some cash to start. Also need to get part P as i was covered by company, also test gear/van/insurance/odd tools. The list never ends, i am on business courses at the mo as well. Need to find job to fund it all and to stay with till i can go sole trader.

 

[corey]

Just been made redundant ,registered self employed yesterday things are not looking good here at the moment done some leaflets door to door few weeks ago and put ads in shops,feeling a little dispondant at the mo,got the mortage two kids etc ,any tips on advertising would be gratefully received.thanks

 

[devlin maguire]

Corey Hi worst thing about self employment is getting off the start grid, what I did was to sit down and think outside the box, expand your prospects IE try Hotels, B+B,s etc pubs clubs restaurants.Small building companys that are well known in the trade. Bakeries chippies, chinese take aways, draw up a well crafted letter of introduction, vista print do busines card for free just the postage to pay and they are here in a few days, then do some cold calling try and speak to the guy or woman in charge and hand them your letter personally, or if you must leave it with the receptionist make sure you get a name and phone a few days later and ask for that person, be brief but not hurried, introduce your self and ask" did you get my letter of intro" invariably they will say no, or I don't think so, again briefly introduce your self, outline the reason for your call, then, and this is important say nothing, let he /she reply, it's so easy to keep talking and you end up ending the call /conversation, what you want to happen is the guy to say yeah ok drop in and see me. If you go down the flyers route IE blitz an area with leaflets don't fill it with lots of colours,expletives like CALL NOW FOR SUPER SAVINGS ON ELETRICAL INSTALLATIONS. Company name, phone numbers and your business activity is all thats needed, remember keep it simple and always leave a card flyers are fine but who keeps them ? a card is easy to pin up next to the phone I have went back to customer years later and saw my old business card still there. try and get away from concentrating on domestics they are fine, but Joe home owner can be bloody akward. For a bussiness name try and include the phrase "Electrical" IE Joe Soap Electrical saves time and they get the point right away Best of Luck
Mac

 

[lightingever]

I think everybody want to be self-emplyed, but not everybody has this ability. People should evaluate their own ability and then make the decision cautiously.

 

[Adam W]

Well i work for a shipyard (so clock in and out for every shift) via an agency, but as far as the tax man is concerned I'm self-employed because I sort out my own tax returns and NI contributions...
So what does that make me? Employed/self-employed/both/neither/miscellaneous?

 

[Des 56]

I've been self emplyed for 21 years
A one man band working mainly from word of mouth contacts
Its freedom to start and finish as you please
Thats the one self satisfying all encompassing reason that its better than being a number on a payroll
The downside is that money can be like a rollercoaster,sometimes way above what you get employed,but also sometimes, money recieved compares with the third world

Holidays,what are they?
Security,what is that?
Finish at 5 pm When was that ?
Weekends, forget work till monday.Is that so?

Even given the downside,I could never see myself doing a proper job

 

[SimpleSimon]

I've started going self employed but am still in full time employment ( job is not sparky involved.)

I'm optimistic, and I won't start advertising world wide until I'm NICEIC signed up. I'm excited but know it will be slow. Hopefully can wean myself out of my job and with-in 12 months be half self employed and part time at work.

 

[Festerfly]

Self Employed here....

BEST Decision i eve made. Turned a profit first year including buying all my tools etc and have managed to grow the business with s few new long term contracts from contacts made from my non-electrical work.

Result!

 

[Dave Buchan]

Hi Guys,

I'm self employed and while both employment and self employment have there own advantages and disadvantages in there own right, making the transition between the two can be really hard work if you don't know what to expect.
I suppose going from self employment back to working for some one or a company is the worst case scenario as you will have experienced both sides of the coin and are effectively compromising your freedom, and like a cow going to market, getting ready to fall in line and be BRANDED with the company cattle prod once again.
For those of you thinking of going the other way the only advice that i can give is that as long as you have got someone to feed you work (Give you plenty of jobs) set up as a sole trader as there will be far less paperwork involved giving you more time for you to enjoy yourself.
If your not so lucky and were like my good self having a customer base consisting of zilch then you are going to have to try and make this transition gradually.
I set myself up as a limited company (more paperwork involved unfortunately) and started working for recruitment agencies while still establishing myself.
The reason i did this was because the agencies won't wire money to you if you're self employed unless you decide to go through one of there payroll schemes (which costs you more money and causes havoc with all your taxation work) I think this has something to do with the constant employed/self employed battle with the taxman.
With a limited company ,as it is a company and not a person, they would wire money in direct (without the payroll charge) plus the money i was gaining through establishing myself was also going into this account it was the perfect vessel to diversify between the agencies and my own work while keeping my costs down from my accountant. I did this until i managed to build up my own customer base that i could rely on to generate enough income to quit the agency work and generally declare myself "self employed"

 

[cagedanimal2010]

:am now self employed!!!!!!

 

[jeremy]

Well done you! It's not the way for everyone and it does require a bit of grit but the world is now your oyster( though don't be shellfish!) I hope all goes well.

 

[wade88]

Hi guys,

I have recently just qualified so am BRAND new to the game and really if im honest have no idea what im doing regarding the business element of being self employed....or anything else for that matter! ha. however, have been reading through the forum and fortunately the angle i was going for seems to be the advice many give regarding advertising etc. so ill have to keep my fingers crossed and hope that works. But what really confuses me is the tax side of being self employed...what im entitled to claim back, how the money is returned to me for claimed items such as tools or business expenses etc and the general ins and out of taxation as a sole trader. Some light on this incredibly dark area in my mind would be hugely appreciated!http://www.electriciansforums.net/images/smilies/confused.png

Thanks guys

 

[accordfire]

Technically.....employed. By me.

Limited company - managing director. Or tea boy, slave, accountant, technician, IT Support, dogsbody (no, really, the dog's body is better than mine)....

It's not dissimilar to self-employment......still have to fill many roles in one - we all do.

And my staff, such as they are, are all lazy, useless...no....that's the Directors. The lads are all brilliant - do what needs doing to get through the day, and push the whole show forward.

Would I ever go back to working in the machine? Would I f.....no.

 

[Pacey]

I’ve got to agree with DES 56, being self employed is certainly not for everyone. I was on the cards for 16 years, earning a basic of 26K when I left (they pay about 30K now) with van and tools supplied. I went self employed in 04 and earned less (after all the expenses) for the first couple of years. I don't advertise, I get work through word of mouth. Work/life balance? forget it! But for me it’s still better than having a boss!

Now for the advice!

Only go self employed if you -

A. Have plenty of contacts.

B. Have a little money behind you (you need to pay for things).

C. Are able to deal with customers (don’t over charge people and don’t let people down, word soon gets around).

And D. (most importantly) Are good at your job (there are plenty enough cowboys out there, just because you have been on an 8 week electrical course, it doesn’t mean you have the right to inflict yourself on an unsuspecting public).

 

[lloyd1980]

at the moment I would say employed.....
there is a lot to be said for turning your phone off at 4.30pm and having a months paid holiday a year!!!
Ive been self employed for just under a year (officially). after work cut our hours to 2.5 days a week for 3 months.
It started slowly with me walking miles handing out flyers, posting letters, it then kicked off and I was solidly in work for the whole of last year.
after xmas I was busy until the start of feb then it bombed and I have just scraped by since - it went from 3 enquiries a day to 1 in 3 days,
it looks like its starting to pick up again slowly (touch wood)
I would like to share this though - even when I was busy it was financially like swimming through treacle with the business account heamoraging money with running and set up costs.
and when I say busy I mean 7am leaving house, 5.30pm back in for tea, paperwork and pricing in evenings and out of office by around 9pm - same the next day and the next.
cant afford to take anyone on so am doing 4 peoples jobs myself. then there are the customers meithering you constantly over that security light that keeps going off (which they havnt touched) to get there at 8pm to find mr jones has been fiddling in the dark with the settings !!
If your house bashing as a 1 man band your never going to make any decent money, your competing againsed bob and bill doing it out their ford focus's for cash, which keeps the rates you can charge really low.
The money is in PV, commercial and industrial but its a case of contacts to win that kind of work.

Dont get me wrong im really happy to have started a business but Im a bit disillusioned by how hard ive worked compared to the amount of money ive had to live on once my costs are deducted, would love to change the van etc but cant afford to.

Am hopefully about to bugger off to iraq for a year and hopefully things may have improved when I come back, I may look to PV or something with a higher margin than housebashing :-(

rant over

 

[van hire leeds]

Evaluate yourself. Find your abilities & challenge yourself. You can be self employed if you grab opportunities & be bold & brave in taking risks. Take decisions practically knowing about your inner talents.

 

[lukeallen88]

I am employed at the moment. Ive done a couple of jobs SE but i am finding it hard to go fully SE as at the moment i know when my next pay is.

 

[carl9254]

Been self employed since nov 2009, first 6 months was slow establishing a customer base but been busy since, love it!! if your willing to work hard and your good at it, it will work, never looked back since!!

 

[HSEGovJobs]

If choosing the self employed route, take care. Dont just leap in. I am familiar with so many cases where such a brash move resulted in losing income, a home....etc.

Its not wise to leave your role for a life of freelancing right away if
a) you have not evaluated your saleable skills. What market will you provide services to, and how competitive?
b) you have not laid out a business plan of action showing how you will find clients
c) you have no back up funding or savings
d) you are unable to manage your time efficiently without supervision
e) you have outstanding debts

Instead, plan a date for when you know the above is not you. Then you will succeed.

That said, I am also aware of people who took a leap of faith and just sacked their boss, and woke up self-employed the next day, and landed on their feet. These are circumstances where that person had a strong skillset that was both needed and selling PLUS they were able to pick up business skills quickly.

 

[madmac]

Nothing wrong in being self employed if you are a proper business, whether that be a one man band or a dozen men!
The big problem in the electrical industry right now is bogus self employment that the agencies and companies are using to get around direct employment and the national working rules!
The Govt. needs to stop this practice immediately and get guys paying proper tax and contributions and also the peace of mind of having a full time cards in job!!!

 

[nick182]

i dont want to be self employed. I want to be working for a company getting a nice salary every week and not worry about the tax man or accounts etc.... but no one wants to take me on. Ive sent out some emails to local electricians for unpaid work experience but all i get is the same response.. "how much practical work have u done?" "ive done a few jobs here and there while working for myself" "sorry not enough work at the moment"

ill get a response if im lucky.

 

[Alexander Elec]

I have been self employed for about 10 months now and from my experience its about who you know and not neccessarily what you know. I have been lucky as i was introduced to a newly formed solar pv company who sub me as their electrician for their jobs, they covered all the costs for my MCS registration . from there i have come into contact with several builders and have secured most of my work through word of mouth. I am at a point now where i am having to pass work to friends who are also in the trade and get them to help me with my workload.

The Hard part is as previously stated, making the first contact and crossing that first hurdle. Having some savings to back you up is advisable to cover any unexpected costs and quiet periods. Business cards are by far the best way to spread your name.

I would definately encourage self employment for anyone who has the right frame of mind and self discipline is a must .

Good Luck to anyone who is considering taking the leap!

Alexander Electrical Solutions
NAPIT Approved Installer, working in and around the Fylde Coast area of the North West.

 

[Umeme_ajabu]

So what I have grasped from this is it requires a lot of hard work, time and effort to become self employed. Is it fair to say you get out what you put in?

What Im wondering is what do I need to become self employed?

What are the minimum level of qualifications needed? For example, I only have the standard NVQ 3, ECS and 17th edition. Would I need to get 2391 or could I just fill out unofficial test sheets (as I do with my current employer).
Is it possible to obtain a grant or business loan in order to buy tools, van etc? Especially since testing equipment can be very expensive.
Has anyone here, or does anyone here know of anybody who made a decent living being self employed without having any capital or money saved up at the start?

p.s. Is asbestos awareness essential for working in houses? I have passed the course required to work on the london underground which did cover asbestos but I dont know if this counts with most domestic employers...

 

[lukeallen88]

Hi i am currently employed and I also do work for myself when ever people phone so its fair to say i havent yet thrown my all into becoming self employed but eventually would like to make the leap of faith I suppose there is always pros and cons to being self employed for example youve got no one but yourself to answer to but at the same time you wont get paid holiday or sick pay. as for the asbestos in my opinion i dont think there is ever dangerous levels of it in a domestic enviroment i might be wrong but i dont think it is essential to have passed courses on asbestos awareness. I am lucky enough to have a friend that has his own business in asbestos removal so any queries i put to him.

 

[MilesSparks]

I'm looking at going self employed this year. Are there any decent books/websites that anyone can recommend ?

 

[Octopus]

I'm looking at going self employed this year. Are there any decent books/websites that anyone can recommend ?

The first thing you should do, before taking the plunge, is work out all the different things you will need to buy to start up. Think of as much as you can and then put a cost to each and every item.

Don't using ebay prices, use new prices so if and when you take the plunge, and you can buy something 2nd hand, it will be saving you money.

Don't be surprised if the total is above £5K

 

[Top Cat]

I've been self emplyed for 21 years
A one man band working mainly from word of mouth contacts
Its freedom to start and finish as you please
Thats the one self satisfying all encompassing reason that its better than being a number on a payroll
The downside is that money can be like a rollercoaster,sometimes way above what you get employed,but also sometimes, money recieved compares with the third world

Holidays,what are they?
Security,what is that?
Finish at 5 pm When was that ?
Weekends, forget work till monday.Is that so?

Even given the downside,I could never see myself doing a proper job

Just about somes up self employment.
Been self employed for 28 years and the last2 have been the hardest!

I am probably unenployabe now, if a 20 something told me what to do i may tel him where to shove it!

 

[supasparxs]

Just about somes up self employment.
Been self employed for 28 years and the last2 have been the hardest!

I am probably unenployabe now, if a 20 something told me what to do i may tel him where to shove it!

Like most here, I've been self employed (sub contract work mainly) for most of my working life
however for a change I've manage to get a job on the cards.
but £25k plus bonus is crap for the experience and qualifications I have
I'm working as a tester

 

[Darkwood]

My 3rd yr of self employment, do machines, control panels, breakdowns etc not been effected too much by the economic dip as i dont do house bashing but still been hard building customer base, think im there now and hopefully because i started in a dip then things can only get better

 

[Misselectrix]

Have just finished training so in the process of making this decision. Devlin some great ideas on getting started being SE may give it a go. It is my preferred option as this was half the reason for retraining.

 

[robsparky1975]

I am just going through my 1st years trading and it is not good reading,in fact i would of earned more stacking shelves,could be selling the van,testers,etc all soon as i cant carry on like this,dont want to be off putting to anyone but it does cost to set up and get established,you need money to make money,alas i have none left.

 

[Octopus]

I am just going through my 1st years trading and it is not good reading,in fact i would of earned more stacking shelves,could be selling the van,testers,etc all soon as i cant carry on like this,dont want to be off putting to anyone but it does cost to set up and get established,you need money to make money,alas i have none left.

You have such positive threads, surely you can't give up so soon!

On a thread a few months back, I suggested that the first years aim should be to make a profit, and a profit could simply be £1.00 - everybody considering going self employed needs to realise that it could take 2 - 4 years to make a "salary" and should budget accordingly.

 

[robsparky1975]

Me positive threads,thanks murdoch,im willowing in self pity,perhaps i need to watch braveheart to get the fire back in my belly,i think i need to give it more time as you say rome was not built in a day,more effort required.

 

[nick182]

you should try coming up with a different game plan... some sort of strategy! Have you tried letting agents? i know exactly how u feel but u gotta hang in there n not give up. Where theres a will. theres a way... apparently...

 

[nick182]

around about 1 of 5 commercial premises have dodgy lighting.. anyone else noticed this as they walk down the street? I did.. popped my card in the door on my way to the post office next day i got a call.. a week later im up £1500.. U just have to pick ur targets really well..

forget rated people... just get the address off the website and leaflet drop the whole street.. that works well on empty weeks i have nothin on... try that!

 

[robsparky1975]

I will keep trying,im filling the van up with diesel and im gonna do exactly what you said,worth a try.cheers nick

 

[freddyarsner]

HI Friends!!!!!!!!!!

I am self employed, and I am too happy with the growth I have in my self employed business. Well but still looking for more and more.

 

[alexllever]

S/E is a dream for everyone i think. before that we need experience for life and business as well. i'm curious that is every S/E person super busy? too busy to contact others or even to stay in a relationship?

 

[Octopus]

Friends i need guidance on insurance options for self-employed electricians. Do we require Professional indemnity, public liability and accident insurance coverages? Your replied will be well appreciated. Thank you!

What do your scheme ask for?

 

[Octopus]

What do you mean by scheme here? i dont understand. i dont have one yet, so i guess i am here for the purpose of asking for a scheme, an insurance deal,which to get and are there any pakaged insurances available covering for one or all of the covers i shall require?

I'm working on the basis that you are in England or Wales and intend doing domestic work - if this is the case you'll need to be registered with a Part P scheme (Elecsa, Napit or NICEIC) and they all have mandatory, minimum levels of necessary insurance defined in their membership schemes.

 

[Octopus]

Murdock, could you be kind enough to give me an idea what quotations are these three insurers stating? approximately

Elecsa, Napit and NICEIC are not insurers, they are the 3 main Part P organisations and their fees are likely to be your highest or 2nd highest bill of the year. Google them. Sounds like you've some way to go before you are ready to go self employed.

 

[Swicade]

Been self employed too many years now...abit too long in the tooth and set in me ways to be employed now i reckon.

Presently getting the cash together (in these bleak times) to get me Part P sorted and all requirements met to join one of the scams out there (annoy's me i need to join some jumped up bunch of scammers trying to tell me that if i dont shell out the money i cant possibly be any sort of electrician but ho-hum).

Work is pretty short on supply around here in south lincs area due to ALOT of new vans appearing by the week (many being short coarse retrainers) doing work for next to nothing (then adding the dreaded extra's) but repairing thier dodgey work does keep things ticking over, just apity the scammers have taken the cream of the jobs really.

BUT always remember whatever is going on that glas is indeed half full.....'onest guv...

 

[Chris_Harvey]

Self employed now for coming 3 months. I was previously S/E before for two years before going back into employment and hated being told what to do and having next to no input into what we were doing so, Here i am again!! Work is slow as you would expect but, i am remaining positive. I know how long it takes to build a reputation and how short to damage it.

About to sign up for Part P with NAPIT so, more cost. Hey ho you have to speculate to accumilate.

Would i suggest it to others? Yes but only if you have done your homework (and your not on my patch ;-P)

 

[katysparks]

hey Ash,

I'm just training now, and really want to go self employed, did you do an apprenticeship beforehand and how did you get the capital together? Questions to everyone really,

Cheers

 

[Dave 85]

hey Ash,

I'm just training now, and really want to go self employed, did you do an apprenticeship beforehand and how did you get the capital together? Questions to everyone really,

Cheers

Hi Katy
I started 2330 at night college when I was 20, started working as a self employed electricians mate during my first year. Worked for 3 different guys on a casual basis as and when they need me, which was quite a lot. Bought a van and tester at 22 and had accumulated all the tools I needed by then, once I had the van I was usually working on my own doing jobs for these guys, testing and all.

During this period I started doing any private work I could get, building up a customer base, once I'd finished my 2330 (age 23) I did the 17th edition and became registered with Elecsa soon after. I now started to do more and more of my own work (£200+ a day) while cutting down the subcontacting for other sparkys (£150 a day).

I landed on my feet when I got in with a local kitchen and bathroom showroom about 3 years ago and have been doing all their jobs ever since which has probably brought in over £75k to date. Unusually, I am technically recommended and not subcontracted by this firm so I deal direct with the end client, which also brings lots of new clients in. I still do a lot of work for other customers but the kitchens/bathrooms take up well over half my time these days and I give them absolute priority, no matter how short the notice as I like to remain the only electrician they use.

Nowadays I no longer subcontact for other electricians, as I have no time to, and sometimes try and price myself out of jobs as I am so busy.

If you are serious about going self employed I'd highly recommend it but its important to try and gain some contacts before you take the plunge. Also worth mentioning that there is no work for even established contracters in some parts of the country so take this into account. (what region are you based in?)

Nice to see its not just blokes becoming electricians these days.