EV Charging. Courses, amount of work et al.

[gerry.slater65@]

Hello all.
I’m a 55 year old, old git.
Retired at 50 and did a few other things.
Now, though various reasons, I find myself unemployed.
I did my C and G 2330 levels 2 and 3 around 10 years ago. (17th) Not in NIC etc.
Done copious amounts of house bashing with other people.
I’m asking all you learned people, what do you think about me taking the EV Charging course?
Who with?
Am I qualified enough?
Would it be worth it, financially?
How would I get work?

Most of the above could ‘how long is a piece of string’ job....... but any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Need to get this straight in my head before I spend money on all of the above..... money I haven’t really got to waste.

Thank you in anticipation.

Gerry.

 

[Midwest]

There’s a few members on here that do EV charging installs; its seems a bit contentious with PME and different bits of kit being offered by manufacturers, seemingly complying with BS7671.

But that’s given you a bump up, for them to see your thread.

 

[gerry.slater65@]

There’s a few members on here that do EV charging installs; its seems a bit contentious with PME and different bits of kit being offered by manufacturers, seemingly complying with BS7671.

But that’s given you a bump up, for them to see your thread.

Thank you very much.
I’m obviously a little out of touch.
Hopefully, a few might point me in the right direction. Cheers.

 

[Zerax]

From my understanding... if you want to be able be deal with OLEV grants (which is worth £350 at present), you'll need to be an approved installer for that particular charger, and before you can be approved for that, you'll need an EV Charging qualification like C&G 2919. In any case, as you'll be installing new circuits, they'll need notifying... so Scam membership is needed to avoid the £350 (for my area) penalty charge from the LABC.

I think that whatever people's personal likes or dislikes about EVs are... it's definitely going to become a rapidly growing market, especially when we see more 2nd hand ones hitting the market at more sensible prices.

 

[UNG]

EV evolution is moving rapidly away from home charging IMO.
As the battery performance and capacities increase rapid charging will more likely become the norm with chargers delivering charge levels which are beyond the available capacity of the normal domestic supply.
While there may still be a strong market for home EV points into the future they will not necessarily have the capacity to fully charge the newer EV higher capacity batteries with an overnight charge

 

[Zerax]

While there may still be a strong market for home EV points into the future they will not necessarily have the capacity to fully charge the newer EV higher capacity batteries with an overnight charge

My understanding... with current vehicles/batteries... is that fast chargers are good up to about 80% capacity... but you'll need a home charger to get a full 100%.

In any case... the cost of fast chargers is considerably higher than home chargers... so if you want to realise the savings of EV vehicles then it's got to be home charging. It's not uncommon to have 35p/kWh for fast chargers compared to 5p/kWh for home charging.

Another facet to this one... is that the general public are slowly slowly realising that EVs are different to petrol/diesel cars... you don't recharge/fill up with fuel once every 2 weeks... you top up every night, like your mobile phone. This is why 'EV haters' keep banging on about them not having a 500+ mile range.

 

[UNG]

My understanding... with current vehicles/batteries... is that fast chargers are good up to about 80% capacity... but you'll need a home charger to get a full 100%.

In any case... the cost of fast chargers is considerably higher than home chargers... so if you want to realise the savings of EV vehicles then it's got to be home charging. It's not uncommon to have 35p/kWh for fast chargers compared to 5p/kWh for home charging.

Another facet to this one... is that the general public are slowly slowly realising that EVs are different to petrol/diesel cars... you don't recharge/fill up with fuel once every 2 weeks... you top up every night, like your mobile phone.

While I can understand what you are saying you are using numbers that distort the real cost facts.
Does the 5p/kWh for home charging include any of the capital cost of providing the charge point which no doubt the rapid charging costs factor into their pricing. Again I thought the main savings that concerned the EV push was that of reducing carbon emissions not £'s and pence
Then there is the multi vehicle family who will all want a slice of that overnight home charge all the numbers don't add up

This is why 'EV haters' keep banging on about them not having a 500+ mile range.

I find that your comment could be deemed quite harsh and offensive.

Those people who have a sense of practicality may bang on about the range of EV's but it in no way makes them out and out "EV haters" just because they want the similar flexibility of an ICE vehicle
While most journeys are well within the range of the current EV's it is the logistics of an unexpected longer journey that puts people off, how long do you really want to spend hanging round a service area waiting for your vehicle to charge, if it is a business journey how is the lost time waiting for the vehicle to charge costed within the business

There are many practical issues that need to be addressed to complete a move to EV's and it is only as the technology is developed to make it a practical alternative will it become the norm.

 

[Zerax]

Does the 5p/kWh for home charging include any of the capital cost of providing the charge point which no doubt the rapid charging costs factor into their pricing. Again I thought the main savings that concerned the EV push was that of reducing carbon emissions not £'s and pence

Apologies... my intention was not to provide a fully costed comparison... just a ball park number for what the average EV owner will look at. I should have added something on for that... so if it's 10k miles per year at 265Wh/mile with charger cost of £600 with useful life of 10 years... that's about 2.3p/kWh... so 7.3p/kWh in total. That's still 5 times the cost.

Also... I was looking at EVs from the perspective of the average user... so running costs will probably be at the top of the list. The main savings push from governments maybe saving the planet, but it's mostly £'s for the average individual... unless you're a millionaire of course.

 

[Zerax]

I find that your comment could be deemed quite harsh and offensive.

No offence was meant... and I wasn't referring to you or anyone specifically... I always speak generally.

I was merely pointing out that there are a bunch of people out there that have decided that EVs are a 'fad', 'gimmick', generally a waste of time and will never catch on. They refuse to listen to facts or common sense and are prone to quoting extremely rare events to justify their predisposed view. The whole argument about range is a common one and affects only a very very small number of people.

Speaking of businesses... I had a delivery the other day from dpd... he had an electric van... I took the chance to learn a bit more. I asked about the range... surely that must be a major problem for you as you're driving the van all day ?? No, not at all, he said. In any case, if I end up doing lots of miles, I just drop into Lidl for my lunch. 20 mins of charge whilst I eat my sandwich gives me enough to not worry.

And yes yes yes... I know they'll be people that are on the motorway all day everday doing 400 miles + but they are very very rare.

The tech is still evolving... but from my research I don't think range is the big issue anymore (for 95% of users)... except of course for the EV haters... who will still demand a range of 500 miles with a 10 min recharge time (strangely... exactly the same as their current petrol/diesel car)

 

[gerry.slater65@]

From my understanding... if you want to be able be deal with OLEV grants (which is worth £350 at present), you'll need to be an approved installer for that particular charger, and before you can be approved for that, you'll need an EV Charging qualification like C&G 2919. In any case, as you'll be installing new circuits, they'll need notifying... so Scam membership is needed to avoid the £350 (for my area) penalty charge from the LABC.

I think that whatever people's personal likes or dislikes about EVs are... it's definitely going to become a rapidly growing market, especially when we see more 2nd hand ones hitting the market at more sensible prices.

Thank you so much.

 

[Midwest]

To add my two penny worth, slightly off topic (but considering trends, as to whether it’s a worthwhile business plan), I will be considering an ev for my next vehicle in a couple of years time. There are some cheaper ev’s out there, but most of the high end cars that some might considered in ICE format, are ridiculously expensive. A neighbour has the ev Jag, which starts around £70k.

Think very few, apart from reps or business travellers would need a 500 mile range, most seem comparable with a normal car of 300 plus miles.

Fossil fuels for cars, will be exhausted in 50 years, so there’s going to be faster developments in the next few years, and certainly before ICE cars are banned anyway. There might be other technologies, but ev has been around a bit longer. It’s our current infrastructure, that might be limiting.

 

[hasel5]

@gerry.slater65@ What area are you in as company i work for always looking for installers

 

[UNG]

And yes yes yes... I know they'll be people that are on the motorway all day everyday doing 400 miles + but they are very very rare.

The tech is still evolving... but from my research I don't think range is the big issue anymore (for 95% of users)... except of course for the EV haters... who will still demand a range of 500 miles with a 10 min recharge time (strangely... exactly the same as their current petrol/diesel car)

There needs to be more transparency over the real world range of EV's in differing environmental conditions
for them to be better accepted, we have government fuel consumption figures for ICE vehicles so why not range or watts/mile figures for EV's taking into account battery drain in differing environmental operating conditions
Until this happens people are going to be wary EV's and the manufacturers claims and rightly so

 

[pc1966]

In my case the problems is simple - no where to charge at home or family.

My typical car use-case rarely needs journeys beyond 100 miles, but the longer destinations are around 80 miles each way and no charge point when I get there, so many current EV are marginal for that if you need heating, lights, window defrost, etc, in winter or get stuck in traffic jams, diverted, etc.

At home I live in a Victorian-era block of flats and so I (probably) could not have an EV charger fitted in the street, but even if I did there is very little chance of getting that parking place when I return home. So for me until I can call in somewhere and get charged in 5 minutes or so like an ICE tank refill it is really not going to work out.

But if I had my own drive-way for a charger then it would be a very different proposition.

 

[xylophone]

Anyway, further comments to OP on this topic:
1. Need to consider if you have latest rcd testing unit e.g. type A/B with DC tests
2. Need to invest in a ev simulator test unit if you’re installing the cool ones with inbuilt RCD otherwise you can’t test it.
3. most of the time you’ll also be installing a new radial circuit for the charger so have to consider the building notice/self notify via a scheme

T

 

[Zerax]

There needs to be more transparency over the real world range of EV's in differing environmental conditions
for them to be better accepted, we have government fuel consumption figures for ICE vehicles so why not range or watts/mile figures for EV's taking into account battery drain in differing environmental operating conditions
Until this happens people are going to be wary EV's and the manufacturers claims and rightly so

I'm sure we already have range figures for EVs... WLTP or something like that. They are generally accepted as 'best case' and will of course vary depending on your personal driving style and traffic conditions. That's pretty much exactly the same as you'd see for ICE vehicles.

But the point is... people focus on an issue that in 95% of cases is not an issue. You, personnaly may need to be able to drive 300 miles without a break... but for the vast majority of people it's not an issue. It often becomes an issue because people are told that is it not as high as an ICE and that it's a problem... as soon as someone looks seriously at the journeys they do... the penny drops and they realise it's not an issue at all.

There are issues with EVs that affect far far more people than range... mainly the lack of easily accessible public access charging points (for people without a home/work charging option)... that's the issue we should be focussed on... not range.

I must be coming across as some sort of EV evangelist... which I'm not... I've just done alot of research over the last few months to see if an EV van would suit me... and so far, it does... it makes alot of sense.

 

[gerry.slater65@]

@gerry.slater65@ What area are you in as company i work for always looking for installers

Very nice of you. I’m in London. Not far from Kings Cross. I see you’re in Southampton?

 

[UNG]

I'm sure we already have range figures for EVs... WLTP or something like that. They are generally accepted as 'best case' and will of course vary depending on your personal driving style and traffic conditions. That's pretty much exactly the same as you'd see for ICE vehicles.

Looking into the WLTP it appears to only compare vehicles over a standard driving profile

The best case only taking account of personal driving style and traffic conditions fails to take account of the climatic conditions like driving into a headwind, heating the vehicle, using the fan to demist it, using the wipers to clear the windscreen etc all use that precious power source in an EV, while driving into a headwind will affect the fuel consumption in any type of vehicle in an ICE vehicle you hardy ever give a second thought to the other factos as heating is delivered as a by product of engine combustion and the power needed to run all the electrical items is generated on board

But the point is... people focus on an issue that in 95% of cases is not an issue. You, personnaly may need to be able to drive 300 miles without a break... but for the vast majority of people it's not an issue. It often becomes an issue because people are told that is it not as high as an ICE and that it's a problem... as soon as someone looks seriously at the journeys they do... the penny drops and they realise it's not an issue at all.

I agree that in most cases range will not be the major problem that people perceive for probably 95 - 99% of their journeys. It is the same as asking why do a lot of people drive a vehicle that is larger than their normal daily needs require and it's because a number of times a year they may tow a caravan, a boat or a car trailer or drive to their holiday destination and need the extra capacity

There are issues with EVs that affect far far more people than range... mainly the lack of easily accessible public access charging points (for people without a home/work charging option)... that's the issue we should be focussed on... not range.

I must be coming across as some sort of EV evangelist... which I'm not... I've just done alot of research over the last few months to see if an EV van would suit me... and so far, it does... it makes alot of sense.

Accessible charging is the big issue especially in the rural and semi rural areas and one of the big gripes in urban areas is those EV users who hog the charger parking spaces all day to get free parking even though the vehicle completed it charging cycle in just a few hours.

Don't have a problem with you taking the high ground promoting the EV it is all part of a good debate, I've been watching EV development for the best part of the last 50 years and it has been, was and is still viable for local journeys for many years the electric milk float being a prime example, although I do remember a few times when there was a power cut and the milk floats never got the full charge they needed so caused total chaos with the deliveries
While an EV might suit a lot of people for most of what they normally do it is the inconvenience that it presents for the occasional longer journey that deters a lot of possible users

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

If installing chargers domestically you need olev approval to be competitive as the £350 grant is a big enticement.
It's not mandatory but you are £350 more expensive without.
The EV charging course isn't mandatory. The one day niceic course will suffice for olev.
You no longer need manufacturers approval for each brand. If it's olev approved and you are olev approved you can install it claiming the grant.
Truth be told installing an ev charger is quite simple. It's ensuring it's safe is where it gets complex. The new generation of chargers can now use PME and monitor loads so can be installed with a 60amp dno fuse.
There is a growing market it's now 50% of my work

 

[gerry.slater65@]

If installing chargers domestically you need olev approval to be competitive as the £350 grant is a big enticement.
It's not mandatory but you are £350 more expensive without.
The EV charging course isn't mandatory. The one day niceic course will suffice for olev.
You no longer need manufacturers approval for each brand. If it's olev approved and you are olev approved you can install it claiming the grant.
Truth be told installing an ev charger is quite simple. It's ensuring it's safe is where it gets complex. The new generation of chargers can now use PME and monitor loads so can be installed with a 60amp dno fuse.
There is a growing market it's now 50% of my work

Thank you. Just what I needed. Cheers.