Finding a decent plumber!!!!!

[HappyHippyDad]

Everytime I get a plumber they are either ridiculously expensive, leave something dripping.... or both!!

I dont touch plumbing in my house as both times I've attempted it I've just got into a right pickle. I dont understand water, with electrics you do things a set way and it works, with plumbing I do it exactly as stated and then I get ... drip, drip, drip!!!

Anyway.. I needed the copper pipes channelled innto the wall rather than stuck on the outside and boxed in. They go directly from the stop cock (where the main bonding is attached). The chap said he would use copper. I get home and see a great length of plastic pipe stuck in the wall all the way up to and into the ceiling.... I have just spent the last hour getting a 10mm cable from the stop cock to the start of the copper pipe, had to drill a downlight hole in ceiling to access it!!! Luckily I'm just about to have the ceiling skimmed!!

The point is if I didn't know (a little!!) about earthing and bonding my house would now be left without all the water pipework bonded (there might be some parellel paths but thats besides the point)!!

Ggrrrrr...... I'm disappointed with tradesmen at the moment!! Apart from electricians who always do a good job :biggrin:

 

[Amp David]

Now this good length of plastic has been installed, is the pipework after it still extraneous?

 

[amckay]

I do hope he didn't charge for copper pipes! Cheeky ****!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Now this good length of plastic has been installed, is the pipework after it still extraneous?

Well I did think about that Amp David, but with that argument we could all just fit a small bit of plastic piping after the stop cock and then forget about bonding so I thought I'd rather have my house bonded!

 

[High Tower]

Well I did think about that Amp David, but with that argument we could all just fit a small bit of plastic piping after the stop cock and then forget about bonding so I thought I'd rather have my house bonded!

What you have actually done is created a really random bit of supplementary bonding, it's also a waste of time as it's not accessible for maintainence. If that was the case in new builds where pipe tails are installed in copper or stainless for astetics we would be bloody busy bonding them all.

If you are unsure, test the pipe work back to the Met, if you have RCD's installed then as long as the pipe work has a continuity to the MET of less than 1667 ohms or above 50k then there is no need to bond.

What you have done there my friend is hack a hole in your ceiling for bugger all!

 

[Silly Sausage]

At least it was his own house!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

What you have actually done is created a really random bit of supplementary bonding, it's also a waste of time as it's not accessible for maintainence. If that was the case in new builds where pipe tails are installed in copper or stainless for astetics we would be bloody busy bonding them all.

If you are unsure, test the pipe work back to the Met, if you have RCD's installed then as long as the pipe work has a continuity to the MET of less than 1667 ohms or above 50k then there is no need to bond.

What you have done there my friend is hack a hole in your ceiling for bugger all!

Feel quite foolish and am going to sit in my shed with a cup of tea and Guidance note 8. :shame:

 

[Geordie Spark]

Feel quite foolish and am going to sit in my shed with a cup of tea and Guidance note 8. :shame:

Sod the Guidance Note 8 - have a packet of Hobnobs instead. Much tastier.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Sod the Guidance Note 8 - have a packet of Hobnobs instead. Much tastier.

Absolutely, far too dry.
Much better char grilled on the barby.

 

[Guitarist]

Have to agree with HT here. Once the plastic pipework has broken the copper pipe circuit immediately after the stopcock, then the rest of the copper pipework in the house is no longer part of that extraneous circuit (that's always assuming that it's a metal mains coming in to begin with, and thus needs bonding). The problem with plastic pipework comes about when we have sections within an installation which breaks parts of that circuit, but due to some of the copper touching other bits of copper without making a good connection, we end up with high resistance between sections. All that said, most installations end up with hot and cold pipes effectively bonded via the boiler anyway...

 

[High Tower]

Feel quite foolish and am going to sit in my shed with a cup of tea and Guidance note 8. :shame:

Don't feel foolish mate, every day is a school day!, it's a lesson learnt and a bit mot experience gained

 

[Guest77]

Everytime I get a plumber they are either ridiculously expensive, leave something dripping.... or both!!

I dont touch plumbing in my house as both times I've attempted it I've just got into a right pickle. I dont understand water, with electrics you do things a set way and it works, with plumbing I do it exactly as stated and then I get ... drip, drip, drip!!!

Anyway.. I needed the copper pipes channelled innto the wall rather than stuck on the outside and boxed in. They go directly from the stop cock (where the main bonding is attached). The chap said he would use copper. I get home and see a great length of plastic pipe stuck in the wall all the way up to and into the ceiling.... I have just spent the last hour getting a 10mm cable from the stop cock to the start of the copper pipe, had to drill a downlight hole in ceiling to access it!!! Luckily I'm just about to have the ceiling skimmed!!

The point is if I didn't know (a little!!) about earthing and bonding my house would now be left without all the water pipework bonded (there might be some parellel paths but thats besides the point)!!

Ggrrrrr...... I'm disappointed with tradesmen at the moment!! Apart from electricians who always do a good job :biggrin:

Give my mate Paddy at PPS plumbing a ring Steve, he and his oppo lee are good guys and reliable and decent enough, just google him for the number, he is a cheltenham POOF but a nice guy lol

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Give my mate Paddy at PPS plumbing a ring Steve, he and his oppo lee are good guys and reliable and decent enough, just google him for the number, he is a cheltenham POOF but a nice guy lol

Cheers Mike, I'll do that next time.

 

[R G]

Have to agree with HT here. Once the plastic pipework has broken the copper pipe circuit immediately after the stopcock, then the rest of the copper pipework in the house is no longer part of that extraneous circuit (that's always assuming that it's a metal mains coming in to begin with, and thus needs bonding). The problem with plastic pipework comes about when we have sections within an installation which breaks parts of that circuit, but due to some of the copper touching other bits of copper without making a good connection, we end up with high resistance between sections. All that said, most installations end up with hot and cold pipes effectively bonded via the boiler anyway...

Nice to hear from you again mate ...

 

[Silly Sausage]

Cheers Mike, I'll do that next time.

Basic plumbing is a piece of the proverbial; pipe bending, joints etc.
Get yourself some bits and pieces and give it a go.
Why give your hard earned to a plumber!!!

 

[R G]

I wouldn't put copper pipe in the wall myself due to corrosion with cement and gypsum , would be better in plastic although its better if not buried at all really...

 

[Clive P]

Hi,

In a way I'm with HH on this one, I see the plastic pipe as just a continuation of the supply into the property and the Bond has then been made at the point where the plastic meets the copper. With the number of properties now having water meters fitted any metallic supply is now virtually lost anyway. How many times do we read on this forum, ' you can't do xy & z until you have checked bonding is in place'. Many things happen in properties over time and I for one would do the same as HH. We don't give guidance saying, check to see if this is extraneous, the guidance we give says Bonding should be in place.

Regards.

 

[davesparks]

Do you not understand the purpose of bonding then?

 

[Clive P]

Hi,
Yes I do, but with the information readily given out on this forum, it seems to sit unfavourably with the replies that are generally given.

Regards.

 

[davesparks]

How so? The replies generally given are to check that bonding is in place, yes?

They don't stipulate bonding to what or where, just that it needs to be checked. The first step in checking that bonding is in place has got to be identifying the items which require bonding. You can't check that something is in place without knowing where that place is!

Oh and advice given on a forum doesn't overrule the regulations!

 

[trev]

H.

Welcome back sir, we were just talking about you (and a few others) a couple of days ago.
Nice things of course

 

[Clive P]

Hi,

I agree with what you say. The point I am trying to make is that it is good procedure to have Gas and water bond in place. We don,t advise people to check whether their pipework is extraneous or not, we always reccomend that it should be bonded.

Regards.

 

[davesparks]

Who is this we you are referring to, and why do you say it is good practice to have gas and water bond in place?

If it doesn't need to be bonded then don't bond it!

People need to loose the sheep mentality of blindly following without getting their brain involved.

 

[Clive P]

Hi,

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Thanks for the banter.

Regards.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Welcome back sir, we were just talking about you (and a few others) a couple of days ago.
Nice things of course

I reckon he's been and gone like one of my flashes of genius!
Reminds me, haven't heard from Specialist for a long time, he was good.

 

[trev]

Hi,

I agree with what you say. The point I am trying to make is that it is good procedure to have Gas and water bond in place. We don,t advise people to check whether their pipework is extraneous or not, we always reccomend that it should be bonded.

Regards.

So if you came to my home you'd advise me to pay you to have things done which are unnecessary?
Presumably you're quite happy to charge me for this unnecessary work?
Hmmm, Matthew Allbright and Dom Littlewood would love you.

 

[trev]

It is good procedure to prove that something is extraneous or not before telling someone that they need to have this done. There are no two ways about this.

 

[Guest77]

Fight fight fight lol

 

[Silly Sausage]

Fight fight fight lol

Dave 3 to 1 On.

 

[davesparks]

Hi,

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Thanks for the banter.

Regards.

It's not banter, it's a pretty basic part of the job.

 

[Guitarist]

Nice to hear from you again mate ...

Thanks Ray

 

[Guitarist]

Welcome back sir, we were just talking about you (and a few others) a couple of days ago.
Nice things of course

Thank you too Trev....Not sure I approve of nice things being said about me though


Archy, I'm often watching the posts and having a chuckle...

 

[trev]

.Not sure I approve of nice things being said about me though

Tough

 

[Clive P]

Hi,

I have always understood from the regulations that a bonding conductor should be connected to any water installation pipes, gas installation pipes central heating etc, etc. Ok, it may be the case that these are not extraneous , but as i mentioned in an earlier post, things change over time; and yes it may be over the top, belt and braces and all that, but it is something I believe is necessary. Perhaps we don't all agree with that, but it does make life more exciting having these discussions, seeing we all interpret things in different ways.

Regards.

Regards.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Hi,

I have always understood from the regulations that a bonding conductor should be connected to any water installation pipes, gas installation pipes central heating etc, etc.

Aye, metal pipes coming out of the ground!

 

[trev]

Jesus H Christ. I'm done with this stupidity. I'm unsubscribing before I say something that'll get me banned.

 

[7029 dave]

So if you came to my home you'd advise me to pay you to have things done which are unnecessary?
Presumably you're quite happy to charge me for this unnecessary work?
Hmmm, Matthew Allbright and Dom Littlewood would love you.

A little IR test maybe. lol

 

[Clive P]

Hi,
Lets put it this way, if you were doing a new build, would you put all of your wiring in place then wait to the end of the job to see if you needed to run in any bonding cables?

Regards.

 

[davesparks]

No, I'd find out before I ran any cables in!
New build is likely going to be plastic incoming services with plastic internal pipes for the wet stuff these days so chances of needing bonding are somewhere between slim and none.

The only thing that will require bonding, and only as a damned peace keeping exercise, is the gas. The damned gas safe bods have got plumbers convinced that every gas meter must have a 10mm bond on it or else the apocalypse will be upon us or something.

 

[7029 dave]

G/Y every where job done.

 

[Clive P]

Hi,

Perhaps we can agree to meet halfway on this Dave. Like I say we all look at things differently,

Regards.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Basic plumbing is a piece of the proverbial; pipe bending, joints etc.
Get yourself some bits and pieces and give it a go.
Why give your hard earned to a plumber!!!

Piece of pi$$ mate .... it's just a few pipes & fittings & things. What could possible go wrong???

 

[R G]

Piece of pi$$ mate .... it's just a few pipes & fittings & things. What could possible go wrong???

Thats what the plumber said on the Titanic , when he was mending the leak ..

 

[Silly Sausage]

Piece of pi$$ mate .... it's just a few pipes & fittings & things. What could possible go wrong???

Oi! the only leaks I've ever had were on my first attempt.
Did some Yorkshire joints, good blast with the burner, SOLID!
Drip, drip, drip.
No flux.
Not a single bad joint since. Even end feed.
Can't match Marv's last effort though.

 

[davesparks]

Soldering pipes is as easy as soldering anything else really.

It's the knowing of which pipe goes where that gets a tad more tricky. It amazes me how many electricians who wire boiler systems haven't taken the time to learn about the plumbing side of things.
How can you hope to install a control system for something when you don't understand how the system works?

 

[dan86]

G/Y every where job done.

calm down Cockburn 2nd!

 

[Silly Sausage]

Have you got a copy yet?
Freely available for forum regulars!

 

[imago]

The only thing that will require bonding, and only as a damned peace keeping exercise, is the gas. The damned gas safe bods have got plumbers convinced that every gas meter must have a 10mm bond on it or else the apocalypse will be upon us or something.

And isn't that a royal pain?!

Did a rewire as part of a refurb a little while back. The house had mains gas installed for the first time. It was a new plastic pipe, run through an old metal coal gas supply pipe under the path. A short metal upstand of pipe that came through the kitchen wall (still metal) and connected to the new (plastic bodied) meter. Metal from the meter to the boiler.

The boiler wasn't grounded through the water pipes, which ran back to the stop tap, then through the wall (in copper) to the plastic water meter. So the only earthing/bonding in contact with the pipework for
water or gas was the CPC in the boiler's power supply.

No amount of explanation on readings would sway the gas boys. 10mm bond after the stop/meter or they wouldn't connect.

 

[Guest111]

Oi! the only leaks I've ever had were on my first attempt.
Did some Yorkshire joints, good blast with the burner, SOLID!
Drip, drip, drip.
No flux.
Not a single bad joint since. Even end feed.
Can't match Marv's last effort though.

before I left school I did about 4 years of plumbing with my old chap(weekends and holidays) anyway I got quite good at it.some years later my sons mate gets married and buys his first house,job number one new bathroom suite.I offered my help as he'd not done plumbing before but got the old "it's ok I've read a book" routine,anyway 9pm and he's on the phone crying,no water since 8 am and a very peed off wife.I went round to his house and he'd done a lovely job,all new pipe to everything.the trouble was he had a weep on the stop tap and the soldered joint onto the old copper wouldn't take,the outside tap pit was full of crap and he'd spent about 3 hours and loads of gas trying to solder it.I removed the fitting and used a compression joint,water on no leaks all good,"tell me" he said "what would you have done if I'd have took up your offer of help" "well" I replied "exactly what I've done now but we'd have finished a damn site sooner"

 

[Amp David]

Hi,

I agree with what you say. The point I am trying to make is that it is good procedure to have Gas and water bond in place. We don,t advise people to check whether their pipework is extraneous or not, we always reccomend that it should be bonded.

Regards.

Its pointless if whatevers being bonded is extraneous. Just a waste of bonding clamps and 10mm earth