Finding buried panel

[Alfa86]

4 outlets, living room, not on main panel. Can’t find another panel. How can I find buried panel? Built about 1990, Atlanta area

 

[DPG]

Welcome to the forum!

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[pc1966]

Follow the cables is the usual advice, though not much help if they are all in walls, etc.

How about using one of the metal-detecting devices used to check for buried cables before nailing stuff up? If you find a suspiciously large area that looks metal than you have a point to investigate.

I would like to think no one is so dumb as to hide a critical thing like a panel, but sadly that appears from time to time on this forum!

 

[davesparks]

It seems unlikely that a seperate panel would be installed for just 4 outlets of everything else is on the main panel.

Have you confirmed that these are still live with all breakers off in the main panel or with the main switch off?

What are you using to test that these outlets are live?

 

[Alfa86]

It seems unlikely that a seperate panel would be installed for just 4 outlets of everything else is on the main panel.

Have you confirmed that these are still live with all breakers off in the main panel or with the main switch off?

What are you using to test that these outlets are live?

Thanks for your reply. Yes. We threw all the breakers and my plug in tester which has a gfci test button still indicated power and correct wiring. Also tried to trip a gfci on that circuit with the tester with no results.
The main panel is in the garage with about 30 breakers but no main breaker.

 

[Alfa86]

Follow the cables is the usual advice, though not much help if they are all in walls, etc.

How about using one of the metal-detecting devices used to check for buried cables before nailing stuff up? If you find a suspiciously large area that looks metal than you have a point to investigate.

I would like to think no one is so dumb as to hide a critical thing like a panel, but sadly that appears from time to time on this forum!

Thanks for your reply. I was hoping to find a simpler solution than the buried cable detector but that’s the best idea so far.

I neglected to mention there are about 30 breakers I what I consider the main panel but no main breaker. Can I conclude that there is another panel feeding this one?

 

[davesparks]

Thanks for your reply. Yes. We threw all the breakers and my plug in tester which has a gfci test button still indicated power and correct wiring. Also tried to trip a gfci on that circuit with the tester with no results.
The main panel is in the garage with about 30 breakers but no main breaker.

Did you switch off all of the breakers at the same time or one by one?

It's possible, if an electrician has made a serious mistake, that these outlets could have been connected to more than one breaker.

Is there anything else in the house which doesn't appear to be fed from the main panel?

 

[Alfa86]

Did you switch off all of the breakers at the same time or one by one?

It's possible, if an electrician has made a serious mistake, that these outlets could have been connected to more than one breaker.

Is there anything else in the house which doesn't appear to be fed from the main panel?

Thanks for your reply. We did one at a time. Never thought of a double feed situation. That’s scary. I’ll check other outlets also.

There is no main breaker on this 30 breaker panel. It has to be somewhere.

I will also check inside the panel. Possibly a faulty breaker doesn’t disconnect power when thrown to off position

Will advise tomorrow

 

[James]

Can you post a picture of this panel?
if you take the cover off then a picture of inside would help.

 

[Alfa86]

Thanks. I’ll be back there tomorrow

 

[Alfa86]

Did you switch off all of the breakers at the same time or one by one?

It's possible, if an electrician has made a serious mistake, that these outlets could have been connected to more than one breaker.

Is there anything else in the house which doesn't appear to be fed from the main panel?

Congratulations.. you nailed it. Two breakers feed the circuit. Both 20 amp. One labeled family room, the other labeled dishwasher. Kitchen remodeled 8 years ago.
Can we leave it this way? Or is it a fire hazard.

 

[Megawatt]

4 outlets, living room, not on main panel. Can’t find another panel. How can I find buried panel? Built about 1990, Atlanta area

Have you considered getting an electrician with the proper equipment to find where it is being fed from.

 

[pc1966]

Can we leave it this way? Or is it a fire hazard.

Definitely not!

It is a fire hazard (as now you can get double the current on that cable compared to the design) and a safety hazard if someone assumes the breaker has isolated it.

Yes, we know that you never assume, you always prove dead via suitable tester & procedure, but mistakes happen and someone's life could depend on this.

 

[Alfa86]

Definitely not!

It is a fire hazard (as now you can get double the current on that cable compared to the design) and a safety hazard if someone assumes the breaker has isolated it.

Yes, we know that you never assume, you always prove dead via suitable tester & procedure, but mistakes happen and someone's life could depend on this.

Thanks. That’s what I thought. 2 breakers at amps is essentially 40 amps.
I think we should turn one off until we find the crossover point.
Any thoughts on finding the crossover point. I’ll start at the panel.

 

[Alfa86]

Thanks. That’s what I thought. 2 breakers at amps is essentially 40 amps.
I think we should turn one off until we find the crossover point.
Any thoughts on finding the crossover point. I’ll start at the panel.

We found that the first box in the outlet chain is double fed. Separated them and capped the feed from the dw circuit. There is only one wire connected to the dw. I can only assume that when the dishwasher was relocated they put a junction box in to extend the wiring and mistakenly tied in the outlets in the next room.
Nothing else is connected to the dw circuit so I think we are good

 

[Megawatt]

We found that the first box in the outlet chain is double fed. Separated them and capped the feed from the dw circuit. There is only one wire connected to the dw. I can only assume that when the dishwasher was relocated they put a junction box in to extend the wiring and mistakenly tied in the outlets in the next room.
Nothing else is connected to the dw circuit so I think we are good

They didn’t mistakenly wire it that way. They just were too lazy to install a separate circuit. Great find.

 

[Alfa86]

They didn’t mistakenly wire it that way. They just were too lazy to install a separate circuit. Great find.

Thanks for your help. A double fed circuit is so bizarre I would have never thought of it. Guess a pro sees all kinds of stuff.