Formal Visual - Pass Sticker?

[sweetcheeks82]

Hi, After a formal visual does the equipment get a pass sticker or is that only after actual testing?
Thanks

 

[telectrix]

if you think it's safe for continued use, then a pass sticker is appropriate. on the test cert. you could put a comment. end of the day, it's your call based on your competence.

 

[sweetcheeks82]

if you think it's safe for continued use, then a pass sticker is appropriate. on the test cert. you could put a comment. end of the day, it's your call based on your competence.

Thanks for your quick reply.

 

[Robert Turnbull]

You get blue sticks for a visual. Have some greens in my hand and on the back if the pack it shows the range of stickers and log books (kewtech)

 

[sweetcheeks82]

You get blue sticks for a visual. Have some greens in my hand and on the back if the pack it shows the range of stickers and log books (kewtech)

Thanks

 

[grantr37]

visual inspection stickers are on ebay at good prices, theres also other stickers such as the microwave labels and plug top lablels etc....

 

[ohreally]

Following a formal visual inspection, if a sticker was required at this point, i'd issue a visual inspection only sticker - not a pass label.

 

[sweetcheeks82]

Thanks, i will look on ebay now.

 

[sweetcheeks82]

after i do the visual inpsection would i leave the green pass label on until the next test date. so it has both?

 

[sweetcheeks82]

equipment has passed electrical test and has green pass sticker.
Then later it passed visual inpsection, would i leave the green pass label on until the next test date. so it has both?
thanks​

Following a formal visual inspection, if a sticker was required at this point, i'd issue a visual inspection only sticker - not a pass label.

 

[Adam W]

This all sounds to be getting a bit out of hand - there is no legal requirement to PAT test at all, but it seems to be providing a lot of people with jobs. Every appliance should be visually inspected before each use, then "PAT tested" every year or whatever, which could just involve a visual inspection or could involve earth continuity, IR, run leakage tests depending on the construction.

Going around "formally visually inspecting" every appliance in the interim period between testing just sounds like busywork. Either carry out the appropriate tests or don't.

 

[Adam W]

A quick look online reveals there are loads of different kinds of "passed visual inspection" labels, most likely because people are willing to buy them and not because going around just visually inspecting everything is officially recognised.
As if a 2 day PAT testing course weren't short enough, now there are 'companies' who want to dumb it down even more and get businesses to pay them to have a look at an appliance and slap a sticker on it.

"Well we could test it for you for £1.50 or have a quick look at it for 50p."
"Do I get a sticker for 50p?"
"Yes"
"That one then."

 

[sweetcheeks82]

What i meant was if an appliance has passed the electrical test and the next test is visual inspection, do i remove and replace green pass label with visual (blue) one?
No-one will know its passed electrical test if green pass sticker has gone....

This all sounds to be getting a bit out of hand - there is no legal requirement to PAT test at all, but it seems to be providing a lot of people with jobs. Every appliance should be visually inspected before each use, then "PAT tested" every year or whatever, which could just involve a visual inspection or could involve earth continuity, IR, run leakage tests depending on the construction.

Going around "formally visually inspecting" every appliance in the interim period between testing just sounds like busywork. Either carry out the appropriate tests or don't.

 

[Adam W]

What I'm saying is I don't think there should be two separate tests - you do the testing and put a test sticker on, then the user should do a visual (or rather 'all senses except taste' inspection) before they use it, without having to put any more stickers on the appliance.

How come you're going around doing visual-only inspections?

 

[Fox]

In my opinion you would conduct a visual inspection before you even consider testing an appliance with a PAT tester. If there are any visual defects that you are not going to repair, cut the plug off and take the appliance out of use and record your findings.

If you have conducted a visual inspection and you are happy with the appliance, I would then proceed to test it applicably and issue a green pass sticker which would cover both your visual assesment and your electronic tests.

You can purchase visual pass stickers - personally I'd use these for items of equipment that you can't PAT test (laptop chargers, phone charges etc etc)....

 

[Grizzly01]

What I'm saying is I don't think there should be two separate tests - you do the testing and put a test sticker on, then the user should do a visual (or rather 'all senses except taste' inspection) before they use it, without having to put any more stickers on the appliance.

How come you're going around doing visual-only inspections?

But what you've overlooked it that there are 3 levels to this, not 2:

*The user check (which you are referring to wrongly as the visual), to be done before each use. Not recorded or stickered.
*The formal visual inspection (which is what sweetcheeks82 is talking about). Recorded and can be stickered.
*Combined inspection and testing. Recorded and can be stickered.

Formal visual inspections can be carried out inbetween combined inspection & test periods, or even instead of, for some classes of appliance in certain environments. It's all down to the assessment.

 

[Grizzly01]

In my opinion you would conduct a visual inspection before you even consider testing an appliance with a PAT tester .... If you have conducted a visual inspection and you are happy with the appliance, I would then proceed to test it applicably and issue a green pass sticker which would cover both your visual assesment and your electronic tests.

Absolutely. That's why that part of the process is rightly called 'Combined Inspection and Testing'.

But it's not what sweetcheeks82 is asking...

 

[Adam W]

But what you've overlooked it that there are 3 levels to this, not 2:

*The user check (which you are referring to wrongly as the visual), to be done before each use. Not recorded or stickered.
*The formal visual inspection (which is what sweetcheeks82 is talking about). Recorded and can be stickered.
*Combined inspection and testing. Recorded and can be stickered.

Formal visual inspections can be carried out inbetween combined inspection & test periods, or even instead of, for some classes of appliance in certain environments. It's all down to the assessment.

What I'm saying is I don't think there should be two separate tests
Should just be user checks and II&TEE. Doing a separate "visual only" is just busywork.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

In my opinion you would conduct a visual inspection before you even consider testing an appliance with a PAT tester. If there are any visual defects that you are not going to repair, cut the plug off and take the appliance out of use and record your findings.

If you have conducted a visual inspection and you are happy with the appliance, I would then proceed to test it applicably and issue a green pass sticker which would cover both your visual assesment and your electronic tests.

You can purchase visual pass stickers - personally I'd use these for items of equipment that you can't PAT test (laptop chargers, phone charges etc etc)....

^^^ This!

 

[Grizzly01]

What I'm saying is I don't think there should be two separate tests
Should just be user checks and II&TEE. Doing a separate "visual only" is just busywork.

The IET disagree with you.

 

[sweetcheeks82]

Thanks for your replies. maybe i was a bit quick in my question.
I am having to start from scratch as no previous records from electricians.
eg. Class 1 Portable appliance in commercial kitchen.
Visual = pass. Combined I&T = pass = Green pass sticker Combined I&T is yearly
Formal visual is every 6 months. In 6 months time when i do the formal visual (for arguments sake it passes) i will use a Blue pass formal visual sticker but do i remove the Green pass sticker for electrical test?

 

[Adam W]

Leave it there until the next test.

 

[Adam W]

The IET disagree with you.

The code of practice for II&TEE is a code of best practice, not a statutory document. The HSE (the people who prosecute if it all goes wrong) say you don't actually need PAT testing at all.

I know what the IET say, but the reality is businesses just want a sticker as cheaply as possible, maybe without a complete understanding of what they're paying for. It's bad enough as it is with these '50p per item sticker slappers' without encouraging them.

 

[Grizzly01]

The HSE (the people who prosecute if it all goes wrong) say you don't actually need PAT testing at all.

Well no, that really isn't the case at all, is it?
Point us towards where the HSE say that, but if the guidance you quote is just for low-risk environments, I'll call you out on it...

 

[Adam W]

Well no, that really isn't the case at all, is it?
Point us towards where the HSE say that, but if the guidance you quote is just for low-risk environments, I'll call you out on it...

http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/july.pdf

 

[oldtimer]

My understanding it is combined visual and testing but the duty holder who is in charge of PAT testing for the building is supposed to have a system in place to do visual checks on equipment or basically a tick box exercise

 

[Grizzly01]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/july.pdf

Nope, that doesn't back up what you stated in the slightest.
Try again.

 

[Adam W]

Nope, that doesn't back up what you stated in the slightest.
Try again.

Well, it does. The whole point of PAT testing is to make sure equipment is 'adequately maintained' in accordance with EAWR, it doesn't say anything about having someone going around putting 2 stickers on everything.

 

[Grizzly01]

No, it doesn't. Re-read the thread if you need reminding of what you wrote (it's not too far up).

Then read this PAT (Portable appliance testing) - HSE's answers to popular questions to see why it doesn't agree with your blanket statement.

 

[Adam W]

OK, it says:

"the Regulations do not specify what needs to be done, by whom or how frequently (ie they don't make inspection or testing of electrical appliances a legal requirement, nor do they make it a legal requirement to undertake this annually)."

And
"Is Portable Appliance Testing (PAT) compulsory?
No."

Seems quite clear to me.

 

[Grizzly01]

Over-simplistic & naive

:sad:​

 

[Adam W]

Realistic. Who wants to have to pay someone to disrupt their business every few months to check the plugs on a load of low-risk appliances and stick two stickers on everything?
The only person it benefits is the jobsworth doing it, because it keeps them in busywork.

 

[oldtimer]

Totally agree with you Adam things have moved on ie years ago when you bought a washing machine you had to buy a plug top now everything comes with a plug top so PAT needs to catch up problem is these companies have a revenue stream and they aint going to let it go anytime soon

 

[NDG Elecs]

Given the carp quality of a lot of manufactured goods these days, there is absolutely no way I would label something as fine that has not been properly tested. But then again I dont (thankfully!) PAT. :hurray:

 

[Grizzly01]

... check the plugs on a load of low-risk appliances...

There it is.
You're making very general statements, but when it comes down to it, referring only to a specific part.
Think wider, and if you can't, don't make such umbrella statements.

(FWIW, I totally agree with you, for low-risk environments).

 

[Adam W]

It's the same for a "high risk" environment though - are you expecting to be able to go around a construction site and stop everybody working for half an hour or so or get them to lug all their power tools out of their van every 3 months so you can test their electrical equipment? Not only that but do it every month so you can have a 'formal' look at it all and slap another sticker on everything? Aside from some slightly frayed sheath on 110v extension cables the majority of it is fine anyway, and the guys whose equipment it is often tell you it's never been tested.
I still maintain that "formal visual inspections" are just unnecessary busywork which aren't required by law and in the majority of cases the frequency of combined inspection and testing can be reduced.

 

[Grizzly01]

... are you expecting to be able to go around a construction site and stop everybody working for half an hour or so or get them to lug all their power tools out of their van every 3 months so you can test their electrical equipment? Not only that but do it every month so you can have a 'formal' look at it all and slap another sticker on everything?

If the duty holder has decided that is what is required, then yes, obviously.
If they haven't, then no.

 

[Adam W]

If the duty holder has decided that is what is required, then yes, obviously.
If they haven't, then no.

So it's all down to the duty holder now is it?
Very non-committal.

 

[Grizzly01]

So now you don't like what the HSE say!
Make yer mind up.

 

[oldtimer]

So now you don't like what the HSE say!
Make yer mind up.

No I think like all of us don't like the fudge they have brought out so big companies cannot dictate test periods hence the onus is on the duty holder. Me thinks moving the goalposts spring to mind on this

 

[Adam W]

So now you don't like what the HSE say!
Make yer mind up.

I didn't say anything of the sort - you were going on about having to do formal visual inspections in addition to combined inspection and testing because it's in the IET code of practice, now you're saying it's all down to the duty holder who in many cases will have subcontracted the PAT testing to somebody who they believe to be an expert in it, hence not doing it themselves.

Saying it's down to the duty holder sounds like one of these "umbrella statements" which you claim to dislike so much.

 

[Grizzly01]

If you like.

 

[oldtimer]

Just done a PAT on 50 items in an office and I did not get an option as the owner said nothing have been checked for the past 6 years so I want everything checked no ifs so I complied and put a pass sticker but certain items were recorded on the test cert as visual only end of story and wont get a call for the next 6 years although had to change 10 13A fuses to 3A )

 

[Adam W]

Just done a PAT on 50 items in an office and I did not get an option as the owner said nothing have been checked for the past 6 years so I want everything checked no ifs so I complied and put a pass sticker but certain items were recorded on the test cert as visual only end of story and wont get a call for the next 6 years although had to change 10 13A fuses to 3A )

Apart from changing a couple of fuses did anything fail?

 

[oldtimer]

Apart from changing a couple of fuses did anything fail?

Sorry Adam I should have mentioned no nothing failed 5 of the fuses were fitted to stand lights so yep lamp had blown the 3A and someone fitted a 13A so I put the customer right on this ie replace like for like the other thing was 5 Apple power book charger with a 1 metre rubber mains leas with a 1 metre LV lead ad the transformer encased in the same had 13A fuses fitted so I changed them for 3A due to the size of the mains cable 0.5mm approx. The customer wanted the phone chargers checked as well because I was compiling an equipment list as well that she could use as an asset list. I also filled in a Repaired Equipment sheet logging what fuses I had changed and that I had repaired a poorly made up 4 metre extension lead re making off the plug top and cutting the lead down to 1.5 metres as it had been behind a couch for 5 years and I explained that it would be prudent to cut it down to the right length.

Also explained to her that no retest dates had been put on the equipment as this was no longer required and that she was the Duty Holder who had to decide via a risk assessment the periods between testing . She thanked me and said she had ignored the "You need to test every year sales pitch" and felt this was not required but said she was looking at every 2-3 years. Other than that she thanked me for making her and her 2 staff more electrically aware

 

[KAS1]

Nice to see there are still good tradesmen around, keep up the good customer relationship/workmanship. The more people are made electrically aware the better.