found out electrician not registered midway through rewire

[TrappedinTheWeb]

Hi all
im a non expert homeowner and battling to understand the regulations. And apologies for the length of the post, a long story.
we have an electrician who came to fix a small issue few weeks ago. He seemed good. through discussion he ended up taking on fuse box replacement which we knew was needed and our previous guy had failed to come back to do. He said he could test and certify it when done but when the time came he said he couldn't because his tests showed the wiring was not right, and the house needed a rewire. It All seemed plausible and it is an old house we've recently bought, so not a huge shock to hear this.
We were under the impression the whole time that he was certified, through discussion about getting a cert and because he showed us a cert he had completed with test readings. We do feel he misled us into believing he was certified in some way although we perhaps should have asked for proof.
he is now half way through the rewire and the work to us looks fine, very neat,( though he's insisting that the sockets are placed 450 up under part m, which I now don't think is required in an old house). Had full faith in him until spoke to building control and transpired when directly asked that he can't certify for them and now ive checked and he also doesn't appear on nic eic either. I gather he should have told BC before starting the work which he didn't. So he's breached the regs, right?
we liked him but we think we can't possibly let him continue if he's completely unregistered and unregulated though he may well be qualified. We are worried about all sorts of risks; if it invalidate our insurance and he may not be insured either and we'd have no recourse if issues later. Are we overreacting and how do I broach this with him as he has no idea we are considering cutting his job short.? bC said they will come and certify it for a fee but not sure that's reassuring enough to let him continue.
grateful for any advice, feels like a very difficult situation and we're just not sure what to do.

 

[GMES]

I have left this in the main forum so hopefully the op gets a wider audience.

 

[sparkdog]

Get him to do it through BC if he is alright and knock off the price.

 

[GB.Kayak]

Get him to do it through BC if he is alright and knock off the price.

Sadly, how do any buyers of a specialist service, without some knowledge of the specialist service, 'know' if the person providing that service is 'alright'? 'Governing bodies' are there to assure those without knowledge that someone is 'alright' but many bodies require their members to 'purchase' a piece of paper. Over time it appears that where the people running the scheme profit from that transaction standards appear to slide; all the more so when those at the top of the scheme have little or no knowledge of the business that they are 'regulating'!

 

[TrappedinTheWeb]

Sadly, how do any buyers of a specialist service, without some knowledge of the specialist service, 'know' if the person providing that service is 'alright'? 'Governing bodies' are there to assure those without knowledge that someone is 'alright' but many bodies require their members to 'purchase' a piece of paper. Over time it appears that where the people running the scheme profit from that transaction standards appear to slide; all the more so when those at the top of the scheme have little or no knowledge of the business that they are 'regulating'!

Thanks for the replies.

exactly as Kayak says, we think the work looks ok, but we don't have the knowledge to really know. And will BC be sufficient to know it is? He still has to wire the boiler and cooker, and the new circuits to the fuse board so some bigger items still to do, and I'm also worried that if anything goes wrong, he or we won't have any insurance.

would you let someone who is not part of any body or registered do this kind of work, or would you just say no way even if he'd already started?

 

[malcolmsanford]

It is sad GB Kayak has summed up the situation quite well, but that does not help you in this case.

You are quite correct for your refurbishment/rewire you are not required by the building regulations to have your sockets at that height so that is clear.

I'm afraid what I would do is basically ask him to down tools and stop work. Pay him for material and ask him to give you any outstanding material and tell him you are willing to pay for what work he has done once you have ascertained that the work meets the required standard, or offer him a small payment, and I'm sure he will move on, especially as you know he has not notified the Local Building Control.

Your in the south East there are quite a few lads on here that may take the job over and issue the proper certification for you. It may cost you a little more by doing it this way but you will have peace of mind.

 

[telectrix]

nothing wrong with getting BC to check and sign the job off. the fee is around £300. discuss it with your electrician and see if he's prepared to do this. an alternative is for him to get a scheme member to test and inspect it for him.

 

[D Skelton]

Just because he's not with the NICEIC doesn't mean he's not registered with another competent persons scheme. Also, if he's not registered at all, that doesn't mean to say he's not highly qualified, although the suggestion that sockets have to be at 450mm leads me to believe that he's a classic 'old wives tale' kinda spark. Without more detail, I can't really comment.

One final thing to add. It is the responsibility of the Homeowner to notify Building Control, not the electrician. Being a member of a competent persons scheme just makes that process easier and cheaper.

Where abouts are you in the South East?

 

[amckay]

Just because he's not with the NICEIC doesn't mean he's not registered with another competent persons scheme. Also, if he's not registered at all, that doesn't mean to say he's not highly qualified, although the suggestion that sockets have to be at 450mm leads me to believe that he's a classic 'old wives tale' kinda spark. Without more detail, I can't really coomment.

One final thing to add. It is the responsibility of the Homeowner to notify Building Control, not the electrician. Being a member of a competent persons scheme just makes that process easier and cheaper.

Where abouts are you in the South East?

I've always thought the onus was on the homeowner to notify too. I was speaking to other sparks about this and they said I was talking rubbish. Do you have or know of any links that say so Damien? Just to prove my point. Cheers

 

[D Skelton]

It's all to do with the interpretation of 'the person carrying out the work' which, in the building regulations is interpreted to mean the person responsible, the person enlisting the services of others to do that work. It's always the Homeowner who will be served an enforcement notice for this reason. Part P of the building regulations is a small section at the end that stipulates really that whoever is doing the electrical work needs to make sure it's safe. That's it! Approved document P (an entirely seperate document to Part P of the building regulations) comes along and muddys the waters somewhat. Approved document P, the one we've all actually read, and are required to have in order to join a scam scheme, is nothing but guidance on how to ensure you meet the requirement of the Building Regulations - Part P. We are under no obligation to follow Approved Document P, it even states this somewhere in the first few paragraphs, as there are other ways you can demonstrate compliance with the Building Regulations. Local authorities are often the first port of call to those who want to demonstrate their compliance with the Building Regulations in other ways.

The main problem is that people are often confused between Approved Document P, which is non-statutory guidance, and the Building Regulations - Part P, which is statutory. When looking to define legal interpretations, it is the latter (as a whole) which needs to be turned to.