Fuse Seals

[telectrix]

Hi, I'm a long time lurker to the forum and have never posted before so forgive me for not introducing myself formally before.

This post interests me, as I would like to know why it is thought that we can't cut the seals. If I need to cut the main tails then I can't do it live so I have to cut the seals to pull the fuse.
I have never been told by any official representative of a DNO or even by a sign on or near to the head that I cannot do this. Without the presence of an isolator, what am I supposed to do and how would I know i am supposed to do something different?

legally, you are not supposed to touch anything that is not after the meter, as the meter and service head are the property of the supplier and/or DNO. in an ideal world, you get DNO to remove their fuse before you connect, then get them to reinstate same. i reallife, that can turn an hour's work into half a day, or worse, entail 2 visits. no surprise that the seal fairy is so busy.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

This topic comes up often on the forum.
Its a mix of dnos wanting to cover themselves and prevent damage etc to equipment and a risk assessment for the electrician.
My work covers 2 DNOs with a few small IDNO on new build estates of apartment buildings.

WPD say we are not to pull the fuse and charge around £80 to pull it and will wait an hour for you to fit an isolator.
SSEN who cover.mainly Wiltshire allow you to pull single phase domestic fuses subject to you being in a scheme or AC etc. They will provide seals on request upto 10 a time. In each case you should assess cut out for condition. Ensure no load etc. Any issues call them.
The IDNOs dont have a clue generally and are hard to speak to. That said one in Frome (lastmile connections) were great. Sent somebody round to check fuse rating as i did remote survey for an ev job and even fitted isolation switch free without being asked!

In any case where you are pulling a fuse. Key thing is assess it. Check for damage in carrier, check no bitumen, bird ---- holding it in. ensure no load on supply. Have a clear work area. Wear VDE gloves, visor etc.

from speaking to WPD and I have family working in some depots the issue isn't so much removing the fuse as if done in a steady firm pull is unlikely to cause issues.
the risk is putting it back in under load or depending on type putting one side in on an angle and causing arcing to other terminal. Person freaks out and it goes badly wrong. Hence need for gloves etc...
other issue WPD says can occur is the fuse prongs can be damaged or a bit tight, so people squeeze them down to fit in better then creating a possible loose connection in cut out or arcing. If the fuse holder is damaged do not even attempt to put it back in and call them. They might give you a telling off and say hoew dangerous it is but in real terms they won't seek prosecution unless you bypassed meter etc. They are more concerned with the safety aspect and will just replace holder.

 

[Zerax]

They are official registered sealing pliers.

Thanks... that explains the numbers then. I use the simple lead seal type that leaves a no marking... and was tempted to get some of the personalised ones... partly so that I know my seals and partly for corporate image. I'm still in two minds...

 

[Zerax]

I worry with pulling fuses when there is a smart meter fitted and I don't recognise it as one that won't be an issue. I've heard that some of them have anti tamper systems on them that will trip out if they think the supply to them has been disconnected rather than a power outage. No idea how it would know, but that's just the sort of thing that'll really bugger up your day !

 

[Zerax]

In any case where you are pulling a fuse. Key thing is assess it. Check for damage in carrier, check no bitumen, bird ---- holding it in. ensure no load on supply. Have a clear work area. Wear VDE gloves, visor etc.

Whenever I see the DNO playing with domestic cutouts... there's no PPE in sight ! Extraordinary really, as I'm sure if anything did happen they'd get in big trouble. Their usual attitude is that if they know there's no load, there's very little risk, and it's only 230v anyway !!

 

[Cagethethird]

I only know that it is illegal from hearsay.

I appreciate this comes up often but it does anoy me that they don't fit an isolator as standard during a smart meter "upgrade".

 

[Cagethethird]

I worry with pulling fuses when there is a smart meter fitted and I don't recognise it as one that won't be an issue. I've heard that some of them have anti tamper systems on them that will trip out if they think the supply to them has been disconnected rather than a power outage. No idea how it would know, but that's just the sort of thing that'll really bugger up your day !

There are some that do this.......that may explain my interest in the subject.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Whenever I see the DNO playing with domestic cutouts... there's no PPE in sight ! Extraordinary really, as I'm sure if anything did happen they'd get in big trouble. Their usual attitude is that if they know there's no load, there's very little risk, and it's only 230v anyway !!

WPD have a 3 strikes and your out policy for staff caught not following safe working ignoring PPE etc...
That said its only an issue if it goes wrong or they get caught! both not that common, once a year i think it is the supervisor goes out on site to observe so guess its ticked and crossed that day.

 

[pc1966]

The pliers are made by Maun Industries who make awesome tools. They are official registered sealing pliers.

Brilliant - that supplier is now added to my tool----- list

 

[buzzlightyear]

Lots of threads on here about this subject.

What safe cracking. Lol

 

[BXB]

This is an issue that a lot of us face on a regular basis (I know I do) - pull the fuse or try to get the DNO round? I know a few folk who would rather do neither to avoid trouble or extra cost and work on the tails live... For an experienced and cautious person that can be fine, but personally I find the element of risk too great when there is a far safer option behind a small piece of wire. I think there may be something in some regs or other somewhere about live working too... ?

I pull the fuse if I feel there are safety issues with the job and the DNO can't make it soon enough (imminent risk to life or property through shock or fire). If the job is non-critical I will make the call and book in to meet them. Round here it could be days or weeks until I see them (everything but emergencies seem to be slow around here, I have two looped supply changes booked with them that they have continually postponed for over a year now, holding up HP and EV charge point installs...) What I do not do is make any effort to hide the fact that I have removed the fuse, and inform the client before I do so, to let them know if there is any problem in the future to put the DNO/supplier in touch with myself. Plenty of photographs are also taken, and the fuse re sealed and photographed again in case the client has any ideas afterwards.

If you are going to pull the fuse, PPE is absolutely essential - Sparks die every year from pulling damaged or old fuses out. Spending £50 on a pair of 1000V gloves (Polyco are good) and a face shield is a very small cost and time investment, not to mention it looks professional. If you don't have a current clamp meter, get one, and even after you think the installation is isolated check there is nothing going through the tails. As previously mentioned, check the condition of the pins and make sure they will fit back nicely, if it looks iffy at all better to make the call and get the slap on the wrist than risk a fire.

There is no dark art to pulling fuses, and I find it perplexing that in this age of gawd knows how many "fluff" training courses on non essential rollocks we are expected to do there does not exist a half day session, even online, for competent Sparks on how to safely pull a fuse if you should need to. Couple that with an online portal where you can notify the DNO (for free, thank you) that you have pulled the fuse and replaced it (with some pics uploaded) and you could save some lives. Surely safety should be above who owns what bit of kit?

It looks like Maun only sell those seal pliers to the meter industry, but S P Wales sell a similar item that can be customised and also seals at a reasonable price.

And yes, for the £9 odd it is for a double pole tail isolator, you would think that the meter fitters would fit one as standard especially with the "anti-theft" meters - I haven't come across one yet thankfully, but I imagine that even if the fuse had to be pulled by the DNO the meter will still shut down, and then they will have to call the meter provider to get them to reactivate it so you can use the bleedin electric again...

 

[telectrix]

if the DNO fuse is recent, pull it. if doubtful cut meter seals and remove old tails. replace with new. reseal meter and notify supplier that meter needs resealing.they might get round to it in a year or 3.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

@deejay... what are your thoughts now you have lots of replies?

This may have been mentioned in the thread already, but if not.... If the meter is a smart meter and the cutout gets removed without authorisation the meter company will know straight away and they notify the DNO who is duty bound to investigate (phone call etc). Not sure if a fine is involved or if it's just a slap on the wrist, or even how seriously they take it, but it's good to be aware of.

Also, we all joke about the seal fairies, but there are some old cutouts that should never be pulled as they may crumble (I think these are the old bakerlite ones). Of course I would never pull a fuse, but if someone did they should be 100% sure they had switched off all loads (I.e the main switch) and would be wearing electricians gloves.

 

[telectrix]

they should be 100% sure they had switched off all loads (I.e the main switch) and would be wearing electricians gloves.

or get the apprentice to do it. he could plead ignorance and say he was just following orders. ( now where did I hear that before? aahh .Nuremberg).

 

[suffolkspark]

@deejay... what are your thoughts now you have lots of replies?

This may have been mentioned in the thread already, but if not.... If the meter is a smart meter and the cutout gets removed without authorisation the meter company will know straight away and they notify the DNO who is duty bound to investigate (phone call etc). Not sure if a fine is involved or if it's just a slap on the wrist, or even how seriously they take it, but it's good to be aware of.

Also, we all joke about the seal fairies, but there are some old cutouts that should never be pulled as they may crumble (I think these are the old bakerlite ones). Of course I would never pull a fuse, but if someone did they should be 100% sure they had switched off all loads (I.e the main switch) and would be wearing electricians gloves.

Done 3 with smart meters, after asking similar on here a few months ago... nothing happened

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Done 3 with smart meters, after asking similar on here a few months ago... nothing happened

Haha... They're all talk aren't they!

 

[telectrix]

Haha... They're all talk aren't they!

being smart, they ought to be able to talk.., maybe even do complicated multiplications like kW x hours = income.

 

[LewisM]

I've pulled the fuses on about 15 smart meters once for 8 hours and never had any issues, how else are you going to safely change a consumer unit etc

 

[Baddegg]

Right ive read this whole thread and could someone put me in the picture?....what do these seals look like?.....I must’ve missed em over years.....feel a bit silly now ?

 

[telectrix]

Right ive read this whole thread and could someone put me in the picture?....what do these seals look like?.....I must’ve missed em over years.....feel a bit silly now ?