Get 18th, Get testing and inspection, go to work?

[BiddeldyBwah]

Sat contemplating life as normal and started thinking about this.

Anyone can do the 18th and the testing and inspection qualifications.

So is it not theoretically possible to do those and simply specialise in testing and inspection? I mean why go through installation courses etc if you can just get a job doing testing with two paid-for courses?

Or am i missing the mark here? Do you need other specific quals to be able to do the certs? Of course i know that you won't be able to do a CPS without experience first but you could work under someone else acting as QS at a company and do testing all day long, no? I know at our company the boss acts as QS and all the NAPIT etc stuff is under him but the other qualified lads (the ones with 2391 and the 18th edition) do the testing.

 

[DPG]

Sat contemplating life as normal and started thinking about this.

Anyone can do the 18th and the testing and inspection qualifications.

So is it not theoretically possible to do those and simply specialise in testing and inspection? I mean why go through installation courses etc if you can just get a job doing testing with two paid-for courses?

Or am i missing the mark here? Do you need other specific quals to be able to do the certs? Of course i know that you won't be able to do a CPS without experience first but you could work under someone else acting as QS at a company and do testing all day long, no? I know at our company the boss acts as QS and all the NAPIT etc stuff is under him but the other qualified lads (the ones with 2391 and the 18th edition) do the testing.

Testing and inspection is probably the area that needs the most experience. Nobody would be competent at it simply by passing the exams

 

[Dustydazzler]

Are you talking about T & I other peoples work and signing it off for the sake of BK

Or are you talking about just making a full time living just doing EICRs

I personally would struggle to make a living off the back of just doing EICRs , there are too many fly boys in my area offering cheap ones

I like doing install work and the clients I do work for pay me very well for doing so , as they appreciate clean good workmanship

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

Testing and inspection is probably the area that needs the most experience. Nobody would be competent at it simply by passing the exams

So the exam and cert is pointless?

 

[timhoward]

You could specialise in EICRs I guess. But NICEIC won't let you T+I other peoples work, and you pay extra at Napit for the privilege and it's such a bureaucratic pain having them scrutinise the EIC that most don't bother.

So the exam and cert is pointless?

It's not pointless but in my humble opinion passing it doesn't mean a candidate is ready for the real world. Ideally they need a mentor / boss for at least the first year.
It's a rude awakening trying to make sense of a 50 year old unlabelled DIY-ridden domestic mess after the relative order of the test rigs at college!

 

[Julie.]

Sat contemplating life as normal and started thinking about this.

Anyone can do the 18th and the testing and inspection qualifications.

So is it not theoretically possible to do those and simply specialise in testing and inspection? I mean why go through installation courses etc if you can just get a job doing testing with two paid-for courses?

Or am i missing the mark here? Do you need other specific quals to be able to do the certs? Of course i know that you won't be able to do a CPS without experience first but you could work under someone else acting as QS at a company and do testing all day long, no? I know at our company the boss acts as QS and all the NAPIT etc stuff is under him but the other qualified lads (the ones with 2391 and the 18th edition) do the testing.

I would have no problem with this.

That is if the person gets the full (both parts) of the 2391.

In spite of what people tend to think; the full inspection aspect is not an easy pass, sure those aspects for initial verification are.

I have more if an issue with people who have passed via an apprenticeship etc, in terms of periodic testing because all you learn is how to do it now (ie when you train); it takes a very long time to gain a wide experience sufficient to perform periodic inspections.

However, there is no check whatsoever that someone who may indeed be a very good electrician, great at fault finding etc has any real idea of periodic, and different ways - all too often I see reports "shocking installation etc" when it has merely been done to a previous standard, and doesn't do things the way they were taught.

So in reality
Option 1
Do this via an apprenticeship/other route, and there is no actual check that the individual has the experience of history or experience in this aspect (though some may of course)
Option 2
Irrespective of the route, perform a formal assessment of the individual's knowledge against real-world examples of historical installations. (Where the inexperienced, are very unlikely to pass, irrespective of their route to this assessment).

Formal qualifications in 18th (or current standard tbf), and both parts of 2391 actually test that someone is of the correct standard.

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

It's a rude awakening trying to make sense of a 50 year old unlabelled DIY-ridden domestic mess after the relative order of the test rigs at college!

I hear that. Somehow the stuff they show us at college on a 3 x 2.4 piece of ply seems quite simple in comparison to what i do at work..

 

[Julie.]

Testing and inspection is probably the area that needs the most experience. Nobody would be competent at it simply by passing the exams

I would disagree, sure the normal apprenticeship exam type route is at a learning level, but suggesting that the periodic inspection aspect of a 2391 is similar is quite a misunderstanding, this is predominantly an assessment of your existing wide range of experience and knowledge, if you don't have that, you wouldn't pass.

It is completely different for the initial verification aspect, which is similar to a standard learning level as the testing and inspection aspects of AM2.

 

[DPG]

So the exam and cert is pointless?

That is nothing like what I said!!

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

That is nothing like what I said!!

It was a question mate, note the '?' on the end.

Although passing an exam to prove competence and then not being competent after (which is what you said) would say to me that the exam is pretty pointless.

 

[DPG]

It was a question mate, note the '?' on the end.

Although passing an exam to prove competence and then not being competent after (which is what you said) would say to me that the exam is pretty pointless.

If it's just a question then don't quote my previous reply or it makes it look like you are questioning my post.

No I would NOT say the exam is pointless. I would say you need quals and experience. This applies to any subject - not just electrics.

 

[Lister1987]

Chicken and egg. You need experience to understand what the 2391 is and its purpose, but in the same breath you're seen an not competent without it (2391) as you've not 'proven' you're competent.

 

[westward10]

Every year I am asked at our annual assessment are you going to do your 2391, nope, did the 2400 years ago and been testing for 30 odd years. That aside bits of paper don't mean a great deal and the best way to gain competence with EICRs is to shadow someone who does for two or three years on various types and age of installation, it is the best way. It doesn't drop into place once you get a piece of paper.

 

[Julie.]

Every year I am asked at our annual assessment are you going to do your 2391, nope, did the 2400 years ago and been testing for 30 odd years. That aside bits of paper don't mean a great deal and the best way to gain competence with EICRs is to shadow someone who does for two or three years on various types and age of installation, it is the best way. It doesn't drop into place once you get a piece of paper.

Don't disagree, but we have two people, (Alice and Bob?), both qualified 20 years ago, both worked in the industry, both mentored/shadowed by two others working in the industry, however one of these was mentored by someone who was incompetent.

Which one is it?

Both Alice and Bob believe they know what they are doing as they have both learnt well from their mentor.

We really need to identify whether Bob or Alice has actually achieved the level required, not just assume that because they both qualified years ago and have varied experience since, then they must actually be competent

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

I'm probably missing something as we're only just getting to the basics now where i'm learning, but how complicated can it be to simply carry out tests and record the numbers? What am i missing?

 

[Lister1987]

I'm probably missing something as we're only just getting to the basics now where i'm learning, but how complicated can it be to simply carry out tests and record the numbers? What am i missing?

Any idiot can press a button and write down a number, however it takes SKATE to correctly interpret the results and communicate them in a meaningful way

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

Any idiot can press a button and write down a number, however it takes SKATE to correctly interpret the results and communicate them in a meaningful way

I guess Tony Hawk would be good at it then.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I'm probably missing something as we're only just getting to the basics now where i'm learning, but how complicated can it be to simply carry out tests and record the numbers? What am i missing?

Testing is all fine if you get perfect results on a faultless install , I could probably teach someone to test a brand new rewire within 1 long day day and show them how to log the results on a test sheet.
But the second they encounter a fault , or a test result that is iffy or get 'funny' readings then what....

It takes months of experience to fully understand stuff and to be able to troubleshoot a job and rectify faults etc

 

[Julie.]

I'm probably missing something as we're only just getting to the basics now where i'm learning, but how complicated can it be to simply carry out tests and record the numbers? What am i missing?

Simple question then, you measure end to end on a ring, the cpc measures 1.2ohm, the line 0.9ohm, and the neutral 0.7ohm.

Are these numbers valid?

It's all in 2.5mm2 and is a typical kitchen in a semi-detached house.

If you copy these numbers into your electrical installation certificate with a measured Ze (utility impedance) of 0.12ohm is this installation safe and suitable for energisation?


And, this is the easy side of the testing and inspection known as "initial verification ", something you should be competent in at the end of your initial training.

The real experience and knowledge is developed later for periodic inspections, but the above is a very basic question which will be something of an almost daily event.

 

[loz2754]

the best way to gain competence with EICRs is to shadow someone who does for two or three years on various types and age of installation, it is the best way. It doesn't drop into place once you get a piece of paper.

I agree with this 100 percent

 

[loz2754]

I'm probably missing something as we're only just getting to the basics now where i'm learning, but how complicated can it be to simply carry out tests and record the numbers? What am i missing?

You refer here to just the testing part of things, whereas the true measure of competence in doing EICRs is in the inspection part.
Guidance Note 3 Inspection and Testing lists pages and pages of things to look out for when doing an inspection of an existing installation, and it says that this list is not exhaustive, as there are many other things an inspector may come across. These are the things that cannot be taught in class and verified by passing an exam. I believe personally that anyone doing EICRs on existing installations, and signing their name on these EICRs, MUST have several years experience under the belt to be able to confidently declare the whole installation as safe/unsafe, based on their judgement of all the items inspected. And the best way to gain this experience, is under the guidance of someone who has this experience.

Sadly, in real life, this is not the case. Hence the plethora of EICRs posted on this forum that are not worth a cubic centimetre of liquefied poo...

 

[ruston]

And a like too if I was able

 

[Zerax]

the best way to gain competence with EICRs is to shadow someone who does for two or three years on various types and age of installation

But be careful that you don't shadow a dozen or more different people... then you'll be totally confuzzled as to what to code things !!

 

[Dustydazzler]

Coding is extremely ambiguous , you could shadow 40 different sparks and all 40 would code things differently

I know some sparks who code missing brown sleeve as Code 2 , some as Code 3 and some don't bother coding it

 

[DPG]

Coding is extremely ambiguous , you could shadow 40 different sparks and all 40 would code things differently

I know some sparks who code missing brown sleeve as Code 2 , some as Code 3 and some don't bother coding it

Code 2 for missing sleeving?!

 

[Dustydazzler]

Code 2 for missing sleeving?!

Yep so they can charge the landlord £150 to remove switches to put sleeve on

Nice earner

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

Needing several years of shadowing someone after being qualified and certified seems a bit much to be honest.

 

[Julie.]

Needing several years of shadowing someone after being qualified and certified seems a bit much to be honest.

It is for normal installation work (issuing of installation certificates etc), but there is no way you can learn everything needed to carry out periodic inspections without it.

My only issue is that just because you do have years of experience and being mentored, does not mean you are actually up to standard.

We have all seen many drivers who passed their driving test successfully years ago, and have considerable driving experience since -- who are absolutely NOT competent on the road!

I believe that you need the experience and then are tested to show they are at the correct standard in order to do periodics.

 

[westward10]

It is for normal installation work (issuing of installation certificates etc), but there is no way you can learn everything needed to carry out periodic inspections without it.

My only issue is that just because you do have years of experience and being mentored, does not mean you are actually up to standard.

We have all seen many drivers who passed their driving test successfully years ago, and have considerable driving experience since -- who are absolutely NOT competent on the road!

I believe that you need the experience and then are tested to show they are at the correct standard in order to do periodics.

I agree I have had many people shadowing me and some just don't make the grade.

 

[LastManOnline]

Coding is extremely ambiguous , you could shadow 40 different sparks and all 40 would code things differently

I never really saw the need for EICR,s. I regard them as the softest money I will ever make. I also regard them as poor value for the homeowner.The average homeowner does not abuse his house. If its wired/rewired by a professional it is basically maintenance free electrically and a simple visual check combined with the testing of his safety devices every 10 years or so would in my view be more than sufficient. It's different with rented accomodation obviously.
. I can appreciate though that in the UK there is a greater need for electrical checks due to the prevalence of DIY electrical work

 

[LastManOnline]

Needing several years of shadowing someone after being qualified and certified seems a bit much to be honest.

I comepletely agree. We spend several years learning how to do things correctly. Why would we need several years more to recoqnize when things have been done incorrectly.?

 

[Julie.]

...
. I can appreciate though that in the UK there is a greater need for electrical checks due to the prevalence of DIY electrical work

This really, I think we have all come across appalling work , Ireland may be different, but most of the EU (and other areas to which the regs apply) allow diy stuff, although in my experience very poor/dangerous work isn't exclusive to diy by any margin!!

 

[LastManOnline]

Ireland may be different,

It's not. As you say all countries allow for a measure of DIY work. But it's usually of the plugtop and ceiling rose variety.Whereas, as the threads on this forum demonstrate on a daily basis, in the UK the average diyer can virtually do as he pleases

 

[Julie.]

It's not. As you say all countries allow for a measure of DIY work. But it's usually of the plugtop and ceiling rose variety.Whereas, as the threads on this forum demonstrate on a daily basis, in the UK the average diyer can virtually do as he pleases

Same in Germany, perhaps the average German is better educated than the average UK diyer, however you can find just as many videos and diy examples throughout the area covered by these regulations.

It perhaps looks worse on this site as so many work in the uk and post their findings

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

I comepletely agree. We spend several years learning how to do things correctly. Why would we need several years more to recoqnize when things have been done incorrectly.?

Can't tell whether or not you're being sarcastic but my thoughts are this is a forum for electricians. The types of electricians that come on forums after work to discuss....work, are the types that are sticklers for being the best, for being high standard, for having less tolerance of less than perfect.

In the real world all this stuff isn't that important imo. There are several guys at work who are very very far from perfect sparks and their knowledge is lacking compared to most on here, but they've passed their 2391's and they do a fine job of testing commercial, domestic and industrial installs.

Needing several years post-training and certification to even become competent as some claim is fairly absurd imo and is trying to hold people to unrealistic standards that not many in the real world care about. And it's to the detriment of few, too. People at my work make mistakes and nobody cares, it gets spotted, rectified and we move on with our lives without poking holes in what we see as 'incompetence' when in reality it's just 'less than perfect'.

 

[Julie.]

Can't tell whether or not you're being sarcastic but my thoughts are this is a forum for electricians. The types of electricians that come on forums after work to discuss....work, are the types that are sticklers for being the best, for being high standard, for having less tolerance of less than perfect.

In the real world all this stuff isn't that important imo. There are several guys at work who are very very far from perfect sparks and their knowledge is lacking compared to most on here, but they've passed their 2391's and they do a fine job of testing commercial, domestic and industrial installs.

Needing several years post-training and certification to even become competent as some claim is fairly absurd imo and is trying to hold people to unrealistic standards that not many in the real world care about. And it's to the detriment of few, too. People at my work make mistakes and nobody cares, it gets spotted, rectified and we move on with our lives without poking holes in what we see as 'incompetence' when in reality it's just 'less than perfect'.

But there is a difference between doing the work to current standards (and testing); and inspecting installations which cover work complying with various standards over the last 30-40 years.


For example, it is one thing to be a fully qualified car mechanic, but only a few obtain sufficient experience and compliance with standards to perform mots - even fewer that can inspect hgv, psv etc.

These are the ones who after learning just like every other mechanic, gain experience and then get assessed to ensure a consistent standard for mots

(Now, I know we can say they are not completely consistent, but they are more so than the current situation with EICRs.)

Imagine a rough mechanic who has only worked on cars, should they automatically be allowed to certify a hgv as safe with nothing more than their initial mechanic training and "experiance"?

That's basically the equivalent to some electrician who completed their training, and now can EICR anything out there...

 

[pc1966]

It perhaps looks worse on this site as so many work in the uk and post their findings

Indeed. To some extent this site reflects the best & worst of UK electrics as it has quite a few very good electricians on it that clearly have pride in their work and often are not afraid to ask questions when they don't know, which is the only way to learn (well, it is cheaper than blowing stuff up several times...).

So when folks come across really bad stuff it gets posted, and we can criticise, laugh, or occasionally think "but for the grace of god..."

But not all of the crap work is DIY, some if it is by p-poor sparks that are the equivalent of dodgy garages for car repairs, etc.

Without any examination of other country's electrical installations on equal terms it is hard to say just how much better or worse they are compared to the UK in terms of dodgy installation.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Don't disagree, but we have two people, (Alice and Bob?), both qualified 20 years ago, both worked in the industry, both mentored/shadowed by two others working in the industry, however one of these was mentored by someone who was incompetent.

Which one is it?

Both Alice and Bob believe they know what they are doing as they have both learnt well from their mentor.

We really need to identify whether Bob or Alice has actually achieved the level required, not just assume that because they both qualified years ago and have varied experience since, then they must actually be competent

Don't disagree, but we have two people, (Alice and Bob?), both qualified 20 years ago, both worked in the industry, both mentored/shadowed by two others working in the industry, however one of these was mentored by someone who was incompetent.

Which one is it?

Both Alice and Bob believe they know what they are doing as they have both learnt well from their mentor.

We really need to identify whether Bob or Alice has actually achieved the level required, not just assume that because they both qualified years ago and have varied experience since, then they must actually be competent

My cat is named Bob. He's a bit clueless, therefore I reckon Alice is best choice.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

In the real world all this stuff isn't that important imo.

There's a grain of truth in that, but it's not a great premise for doing inspection and testing. I wouldn't hire you or anyone with that attitude. If I am hiring someone to test and inspect, it's because I want to know exactly what is wrong with the installation. The same as when I use a measuring instrument I want to know a voltage or resistance to reasonable accuracy with excellent reliability, I don't want a half-a**ed answer that might or might not be the voltage. I don't want an inspector who might or might not know what to look for.

Any fool can be taught what length nails to use to fix a socket on the wall, but it takes ninja detective skills to know whether the nails are the right length just by looking at the heads. And you can't learn that from a book. Here's a real example you won't learn on any course but you might learn from experience. Look at the pic of the socket outlet. Seeing this should put you on increased alert for a specific potential problem with the wiring. What is it, and why is this particular socket a warning sign?

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

If I am hiring someone to test and inspect, it's because I want to know exactly what is wrong with the installation.

Joe Public wants to get problems fixed.

I'm not sure what you're saying but it appears to be 'don't hire those without vast experience' which is one of the great problems in this industry.

At the end of the day you only ever really learn by doing so imo if you have your 2391 you're good to go. That's not good enough for those who are anaI about fine and often unnecessary details (like wanting to know exactly what's wrong with something instead of simply wanting it fixed) but you're a small breed and in the real world someone who has passed the courses is going to know how to suss out most of what they come across.

As i've said, those who come on forums to discuss work are often obsessed with 'doing it right' or being seen to be doing it 'better' than others. Rightly or wrongly that leads to unrealistic standards like needing 'several years' of testing before being deemed competent to test despite being a qualified electrician with a testing qualification. It's just internet high standards that don't apply in real life because normally people aren't so finickity.

As for the pic i would hazard a guess that the screw head is blackened. Apart from that, and being too close to the floor, it just looks a bit old and manky.

 

[littlespark]

Is the socket from LN open to anyone, or just trying to get a point across?

I’ve not read the past posts, but I’m thinking there is some confusion between testing, and periodic inspection…. Which really is two separate things.

I was always pressed at the 18th about knowledge, experience AND understanding.

You needed all 3

 

[LastManOnline]

Can't tell whether or not you're being sarcastic

No sarcasm intended. (Am not a fan of sarcasm)

 

[LastManOnline]

Indeed. To some extent this site reflects the best & worst of UK electrics.

Good point. My view (in my limited experience on the site) is that the "best" is really good. And by that I mean better than anywhere else I, ve been involved in, in the industry . On the other hand, the "worst" is as poor, or poorer than I have seen elsewhere.
I wonder if the more liberal, less regulated manner of the UK electrical industry is responsible for that (just my opinion).

 

[Julie.]

Joe Public wants to get problems fixed.

...... needing 'several years' of testing before being deemed competent to test despite being a qualified electrician with a testing qualification. It's just internet high standards that don't apply in real life because normally people aren't so finickity.
...

Which is why the correct standards shouldn't be controlled by the customer base or the industry itself.

For normal installations (and fault finding), I do think 18th + 2391 part 1 + apprenticeship experience is sufficient.

However for EICRs , this should be controlled and subject to years of experience; with 2391 part 2, only those with considerable experience tend to be successful.

Any car driver can drive and perhaps teach someone else to drive (diyer instead of getting a professional in) but ultimately the inspector aka driving examiner is selected and trained for this purpose by a proper authority, not someone who has been driving for years, so "should be able to".

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Is the socket from LN open to anyone,

Yes crack on, the OP doesn't seem very interested in locating fire hazards, more in guessing and waffling:

As for the pic i would hazard a guess..... it just looks a bit old and manky.

And trolling, although it is an interesting discussion that's worth having and he does raise some relevant points.

 

[James]

There's a grain of truth in that, but it's not a great premise for doing inspection and testing. I wouldn't hire you or anyone with that attitude. If I am hiring someone to test and inspect, it's because I want to know exactly what is wrong with the installation. The same as when I use a measuring instrument I want to know a voltage or resistance to reasonable accuracy with excellent reliability, I don't want a half-a**ed answer that might or might not be the voltage. I don't want an inspector who might or might not know what to look for.

Any fool can be taught what length nails to use to fix a socket on the wall, but it takes ninja detective skills to know whether the nails are the right length just by looking at the heads. And you can't learn that from a book. Here's a real example you won't learn on any course but you might learn from experience. Look at the pic of the socket outlet. Seeing this should put you on increased alert for a specific potential problem with the wiring. What is it, and why is this particular socket a warning sign?
View attachment 93314

It’s more an educated guess than a “ I know the answer”

the height of mounting alone suggests that it may well be in the rubber cable age range of installation

 

[Julie.]

Yes crack on, the OP doesn't seem very interested in locating fire hazards, more in guessing and waffling:



And trolling, although it is an interesting discussion that's worth having and he does raise some relevant points.

I think that's a little unfair, I think we all go through that phase of learning a bit , perhaps comparing oneself to the worst of those around us, and believing we know more than we do.

It is the time and experience after this where we develop the real knowledge, at the initial stage, one doesn't see or understand this.

After all, when you pass your driving test at 17, you're the best driver in the world, better than any F1, or police advanced driver...

BTW, unless it's the photo I would be more concerned about "direct contact" with the mk outlet (with the clamp terminals)

 

[littlespark]

A lot of I&T is guesswork, or at least educated guesswork and further proofing of theory’s.

For Lycian’s socket…visual inspection.
first thing you notice is age of accessory. Likely wiring is of same age, lighting circuits possibly don’t have cpc and still old rewritable fuses in board. Eg no rcd. Cable may be old stranded and starting to breakdown… or this is an old socket that’s someone’s fitted as an alteration using newer cable. Need to remove to check.

Looks like it’s mounted on a skirting board, so too low for plugging in anything without damaging the plug. A damaged plug could also mean a damaged socket. The springs in the socket loose, causing bad connection on plug pins.

If same appliance used in other sockets, they too may be damaged from bent pins on plug.

The screws look a little corroded. May just be age, but could be dampness…. In which case the dampness may be in the socket as well.

Physical damage from a rigorous vacuum cleaner….



That’s just visual. I’ve not taken my testers out the box yet.

 

[Julie.]

A lot of I&T is guesswork, or at least educated guesswork and further proofing of theory’s.

For Lycian’s socket…visual inspection.
first thing you notice is age of accessory. Likely wiring is of same age, lighting circuits possibly don’t have cpc and still old rewritable fuses in board. Eg no rcd. Cable may be old stranded and starting to breakdown… or this is an old socket that’s someone’s fitted as an alteration using newer cable. Need to remove to check.

Looks like it’s mounted on a skirting board, so too low for plugging in anything without damaging the plug. A damaged plug could also mean a damaged socket. The springs in the socket loose, causing bad connection on plug pins.

If same appliance used in other sockets, they too may be damaged from bent pins on plug.

The screws look a little corroded. May just be age, but could be dampness…. In which case the dampness may be in the socket as well.

Physical damage from a rigorous vacuum cleaner….



That’s just visual. I’ve not taken my testers out the box yet.

Perhaps it is the photo then, but to me it looks like the shutter is missing, or stuck open allowing direct contact, and being of the age where it has clamp terminals it may be that the wiring is aluminium which can be subject to cracking.

But yes a whole host of alarm bells .

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Correct, This particular model of socket has rising clamp terminals and was recommended for use with aluminium cable. In this case, the cable is copper, but if I found these I would want to satisfy myself that there was no hidden aluminium in the installation. If they were localised to one area e.g. an extension I would consider prioritising that as being at higher risk of defects than the rest of the installation, until proven to be entirely copper.

Old and manky = meh. Aluminium = possible burnouts.
Opinions = meh. Detailed technical knowledge & experience = quality, value-for-money I & T.