Has Electrician made a mistake with height?

[PEG]

Holy Mary...4 pages...i've had a pal doing a refurb,where the skip driver lifted the whole front of the property up...and down on the floor....one who did an 8 week extension,which was televised,and found an old monks well under the kitchen...N.H added 3 months to the project,oh,and lets not forget the mini-bore pile,through a 30" sewer...

...To the OP,give me your address,and i will post both you and your spark a tape measure and jotter :30:

 

[LCV]

As I said I think we are both to blame. I gave him plans which showed the office furniture but wrote 'plugs at high level' in a comment bubble as I thought that was what the terminology is for plugs that are higher than low level plugs. Of course in hindsight it would have been better if I hadn't written anything at all.

 

[LCV]

I haven't mentioned the Electrician's response because I haven't spoken to him about it yet. I posted this because I was unsure as to whose fault it was and what I should do. From everyone's replies I have a better idea of what I need to say and feel better that it can be easily sorted.

 

[ipf]

Another catastrophe rectified......if not avoided, then.

 

[Wonderwall]

I haven't mentioned the Electrician's response because I haven't spoken to him about it yet. I posted this because I was unsure as to whose fault it was and what I should do. From everyone's replies I have a better idea of what I need to say and feel better that it can be easily sorted.

I'm sorry if this across as harsh, but surely your first port of call should have been the guy who done the work. He has all the facts and could have given you the most honest answer available. Most self employed guys are hard working ,honest , chaps who rely on good rep to carry on their living. I could be wrong, well wrong,but my instinct is you are trying lame blame on a guy who has given you what you asked for, and now you realise you should have managed the job more professionally or payed someone to do what is a very important part of any major renovation task.

 

[LCV]

If you have read everyone's replies you will see that some people think I am to blame, some think the Electrician is to blame and some think we are both to blame. We all have a different take on things and you have obviously only heard my side of things and not seen the plans that I gave him. I just came on the forum to hear different views and I am grateful to you all taking the time to respond.

Just for the record, although I have said this a few times, I think we are both to blame. I am not laying the blame on JUST the Electrician or trying to worm out of paying him to fix it or to say that the sockets need to be on the ceiling or for him to do a belly dance.

Thank you all!

 

[Spoon]

As I said I think we are both to blame. I gave him plans which showed the office furniture but wrote 'plugs at high level' in a comment bubble as I thought that was what the terminology is for plugs that are higher than low level plugs. Of course in hindsight it would have been better if I hadn't written anything at all.

As has already been mentioned, the electrician had done as specified. Also as already mentioned, bad project management is to blame. Did you expect the electrician to question all the things in the plan. You would have been offended if he did.
You used the incorrect terminology in the plan you gave out. You specified 'high level', that is what you got. You are at fault..... Some people just don't like the facts.....

Best thing you can do is tell the electrician you was wrong and could he please move the sockets down.

 

[LCV]

No I wouldn't be offended. The plan shows the furniture layout in the room so I am not expecting him to question the furniture unless he has an interest in Interior Design. All the plugs in the room are low level plugs so he would have just asked me one question.

Erm, I have already said I am at fault but I am going to go with the people that have replied to say the Electrician should have asked me rather than making an assumption with the height as there is no standard/recommended height for 'high level plugs'. That is what I have learnt from their replies.

 

[hightower]

I've been watching this thread in awe. Can any seasoned sparks tell me where they buy their crystal balls from? Seems that's the next tool I need to add to the collection.

 

[Spoon]

Erm, I have already said I am at fault but I am going to go with the people that have replied to say the Electrician should have asked me rather than making an assumption with the height as there is no standard/recommended height for 'high level plugs'. That is what I have learnt from their replies.

I take it you are ignoring the comment from Adam in post #44 "If you had wanted the sockets at a height of 'above worktop height' then perhaps you should have stated that instead of specifying 'high level'."
I suppose it's best for you to just take in the comments that suit the outcome you want.

 

[LCV]

please read my reply #52 as I have already addressed this.

 

[Spoon]

please read my reply #52 as I have already addressed this.

As I said I think we are both to blame. I gave him plans which showed the office furniture but wrote 'plugs at high level' in a comment bubble as I thought that was what the terminology is for plugs that are higher than low level plugs. Of course in hindsight it would have been better if I hadn't written anything at all.


Above is your post 52: Lets look at the facts here. Your comment "we are both to blame" is false. You are to blame. Please deal with this fact. It looks like you made mistakes while drawing up the plan. If you wanted sockets at a specific eight then they should have been dimensioned up accordingly.
Have you read all the posts. How many people since you post #52, where you stated put incorrect information in the plan, have said that its the electricians fault for not questioning your plan...... All them comments were before you gave out more info about your mistake.
It's good that you saved money by doing the project management yourself. You didn't see your mistake at first fix, or second fix, or after the wall was plastered. You only noticed it after the wall was wallpapered. You can now spend some of that money fixing your mistake.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

Please stop calling socket outlets "plugs" .....

 

[LCV]

We are all entitled to our opinions. I don't need to be bullied into going with your view. Mistakes costs money I just have to take that on the chin.

 

[hightower]

We are all entitled to our opinions. I don't need to be bullied into going with your view. Mistakes costs money I just have to take that on the chin.

Yes but to be fair you posted here asking for opinions. Just seems to me you don't like the sound of them

 

[LCV]

Sorry, the general public do refer to them as plug sockets. I will call them socket outlets in any future postings about them from now on.

 

[Spoon]

We are all entitled to our opinions. I don't need to be bullied into going with your view. Mistakes costs money I just have to take that on the chin.

There is no bullying here mate, just facts.

 

[LCV]

I have asked for opinions and it is great that I've had so many comments. As before, thank you to everyone that has taken the time to respond. It is up to me who I want to listen to and I don't have to agree with some people's views.

At the end of the day it is my house so I will pay whatever amount is needed to get the issue resolved.

 

[LCV]

Sorry but you don't have all the facts only what I have chosen to share and my view on things.

You haven't seen the plans that I gave the Electrician which shows the office furniture in the room. I made a mistake with calling the position 'high-level' but some people could argue that the drawings clearly show printers that sit on desk level cabinets with plug sockets positioned behind it. As the comment 'high-level' doesn't match with what the plans illustrate, some people might think it would worth double checking the height with the client with a 1 minute call otherwise the client could end up having plug sockets that are above the printers.

 

[Leesparkykent]

 

[ruston]

How did you know I wanted the target there?:biggrin:

 

[Leesparkykent]

How did you know I wanted the target there?:biggrin:

Haha because you wrote high level target on that smoke packet drawing you gave me.

 

[ruston]

Haha because you wrote high level target on that smoke packet drawing you gave me.

Not me . I don't smoke.:shocked3:

 

[Octopus]

Maybe this thread should be locked before it descends further down the sewer!

 

[mattg4321]

If you wanted the sockets in a specific place they should've been marked on the wall/clearly noted on the drawing. You can't expect tradesmen (or anybody) to be mind readers. Poor drawings are the bane of my life, and what's worse is when people watch you fit something then only later point out that wasn't where they wanted it.

You've clearly made a mistake so in my opinion the right thing to do is pay him to rectify.

 

[telectrix]

or higher, as the case may be.

 

[LCV]

Thanks for this image.

Could you CAD in desk height cabinets going across the wall with two printers sitting on top and two plug sockets located behind the printers. Is that clear about about where the sockets need to go?

Sorry I haven't given you the exact height for the sockets but just call me and I can tell you.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Thanks for this image.

Could you CAD in desk height cabinets going across the wall with two printers sitting on top and two plug sockets located behind the printers. Is that clear about about where the sockets need to go?

Sorry I haven't given you the exact height for the sockets but just call me and I can tell you.

Personally I think you should of been specific with the heights and could of even marked them on the wall but I do also agree that the electrician should of given you a call to ask if he wasn't sure or asked when you both had a walk through of the job at the start...I think the best way to sort it out would be have a chat with the sparks, get him back to move the sockets at a slightly reduced rate as its both your fault Imo.

 

[telectrix]

Personally I think you should of been specific with the heights and could of even marked them on the wall but I do also agree that the electrician should of given you a call to ask if he wasn't sure or asked when you both had a walk through of the job at the start...I think the best way to sort it out would be have a chat with the sparks, get him back to move the sockets at a slightly reduced rate as its both your fault Imo.

can i come and sit on your fence? :wazzzup:

 

[Leesparkykent]

can i come and sit on your fence? :wazzzup:

Lol....as long as you don't nick the scrap cable I've got stored up next to it.

 

[Tuttle]

Sorry, the general public do refer to them as plug sockets. I will call them socket outlets in any future postings about them from now on.

Plug sockets - it's what you plug your socket plugs into right?

Although I've noticed that screwfix sell plug sockets: MK 13A 2-Gang DP Switched Plug Socket White | Switches & Sockets | NoLinkingToThis :mad2:

 

[Diddy]

If you wanted the sockets in a specific place they should've been marked on the wall/clearly noted on the drawing. You can't expect tradesmen (or anybody) to be mind readers. Poor drawings are the bane of my life, and what's worse is when people watch you fit something then only later point out that wasn't where they wanted it.

You've clearly made a mistake so in my opinion the right thing to do is pay him to rectify.

Which is why I posted in quiet a harsh manner. I have been messed around by designers with terrible drawings and often unworkable "clever idea's" since I was 16 years old as a fresh face apprentice....The old saying we can send a rocket into space but you can't ever get a drawing correct...lol - And I am talking in the main about drawings issued by professionals who have "years" of experience - Unless it's a straight forward little job then it really is a good idea to spend the extra and get things like design and drawings ect done by a professional....At least if they make a mistake there is no ambiguity as to who pays and who is at fault. Honestly as nicely as I could possibly say it op just take this episode as a life learning curve...at the end of the day you "almost" pulled it off which is no mean feat....AND you have learned something. I always appreciate learning even if it costs me a few pounds.

 

[Phil Thompson]

I don't get this there are no standard heights argument you are using, there are standard heights for everything, as I stated already. 54" for high level, 42" for mid and 12" for low level, that's to bottom of the box from finished floor.

you have already stated you said high level when you wanted DESK level, and you have also stated that the sockets are about 12" too high.

therefore I emphasise again, you are the only one at fault and should admit it for once and for all.

Not only for giving the wrong info in the first place, but you failed to correct it at each and every stage of the installation.

You are simply choosing to take on board the info you want to suit your own agenda. Yet think if you say we are both at fault but I am choosing to take the view of the folks who didn't realise what you have done in the first place.

At at theend of the day, everyone makes mistakes, anyone that hasn't made a mistake, hadn't made anything.

Not it going to bother replying again, as you haven't once had the courtesy of even acknowledging the previous responses as they obviously don't suit your penny pinching agenda.

Apologies to anyone who thinks my post is harsh, but there's a right way and a wrong way to go about things, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who had the confidence to say so.

 

[Tuttle]

I don't get this there are no standard heights argument you are using, there are standard heights for everything, as I stated already. 54" for high level, 42" for mid and 12" for low level, that's to bottom of the box from finished floor.

you have already stated you said high level when you wanted DESK level, and you have also stated that the sockets are about 12" too high.

therefore I emphasise again, you are the only one at fault and should admit it for once and for all.

Not only for giving the wrong info in the first place, but you failed to correct it at each and every stage of the installation.

You are simply choosing to take on board the info you want to suit your own agenda. Yet think if you say we are both at fault but I am choosing to take the view of the folks who didn't realise what you have done in the first place.

At at theend of the day, everyone makes mistakes, anyone that hasn't made a mistake, hadn't made anything.

Not it going to bother replying again, as you haven't once had the courtesy of even acknowledging the previous responses as they obviously don't suit your penny pinching agenda.

Apologies to anyone who thinks my post is harsh, but there's a right way and a wrong way to go about things, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who had the confidence to say so.

Out of interest, where do the standard heights you quoted come from?

 

[Phil Thompson]

It's what I was told at college and by every electrician I worked under and alongside the past 20 years coming in May. And I spent most of my time as a house basher on new builds.

I also am standing here now in a government owned house (NIHE), and just measured the 3 heights here and they are all the same height.

so wired by a firm I don't know by lads I don't know, and it's how most houses, except disabled houses I've ever been in in NI are done.

 

[PEG]

Lol....as long as you don't nick the scrap cable I've got stored up next to it.

Oooh Kent,Beautiful garden of England....round our way,those bags of scrap cable wouldn't last long enough for a slug to hide beneath :shocked3:

 

[plugsandsparks]

I am only aware of two heights in the building regs for accessories, 450mm and 1200mm. The higher one is for switches, I guess that's why the electrician put it at that height, i.e. its the higher of the two levels. If there was a standard desk height, that might be helpful for electricians but they do vary by an inch or two, depends what the desk is for. I usually give the customer a black marker pen

 

[davesparks]

It's what I was told at college and by every electrician I worked under and alongside the past 20 years coming in May. And I spent most of my time as a house basher on new builds.

I also am standing here now in a government owned house (NIHE), and just measured the 3 heights here and they are all the same height.

so wired by a firm I don't know by lads I don't know, and it's how most houses, except disabled houses I've ever been in in NI are done.

Well for the twelve years I've been doing this it has been 450 and 1200 for new builds in the uk and a traditional height of 12" and 54" outside of new builds

 

[Dave OCD]

Yep 4' 6" to the centre of a light switch or --- height as I was told as an apprentice. :biggrin:
The 'third height' would be above kitchen worktops, 900mm & the worktop then a variable if you're trying to help the tiler. :biggrin:

 

[PEG]

Yep 4' 6" to the centre of a light switch or --- height as I was told as an apprentice. :biggrin:
The 'third height' would be above kitchen worktops, 900mm & the worktop then a variable if you're trying to help the tiler. :biggrin:

...This dropped me in it,when i fitted switches at Scaramangas' house...very embarrassing ...that dwarf was inconsolable :cool3:

 

[marc8]

if you had said High level to my company & given us a drawing we would have banged them in a light switch height 1200mm high to the top as this would be classed as high level on new build unless otherwise stated. disabled height & normally our kitchen socket height for above worktop.
but there again we do work with some designers & new build one off's, so we would have clarified the height as not to get any come backs.
I did read the previous post where you say that you don't blame yourself & have changed wording, it does read as if you want a free job done in the reading. however with doing a big job for a client like a full new build project we would just move the sockets down to location required as normally it is about reputation & wanting to do the best for the client, but if the client has been a complete idiot during the job making life hell then you will find that even the best sparky in the world may not wish to help out.
so I would think hard on how you have treated them during the job & not through rose tinted glasses & from this you should be able to gauge if you would think they would help you, most sparks would for a good client.

 

[LCV]

Can you tell me which posting you have read where I explicitly said 'I don't blame myself'? I find this strange to read because I blamed myself before I went on the forum, why? Because I wrote 'high level' in the plans. End of story.

Other people's postings have made me realise that the Electrician could have checked with me and I agree with this view so I attribute some of the blame to the Electrician.

As I've said many, many times, (maybe it will be my signature at the end each posting), I agree that we are BOTH to blame.

I have also said it is my home and I will pay whatever it takes to get it fixed (#68). Obviously it would be great if he would move them at no charge but if he wants to charge me what can I do about it? Not a FAT lot - maybe I could consider imprisoning him at my house or buy a torture device to threaten him with.

 

[telectrix]

talk to your electrician. say that you are more to blame than him and so will he rectify the position at a reasonable cost to yourself. at the end of the day, the cost will be very small compared with the total cost of the job.

 

[Spoon]

Can you tell me which posting you have read where I explicitly said 'I don't blame myself'? I find this strange to read because I blamed myself before I went on the forum, why? Because I wrote 'high level' in the plans. End of story.

You only told us in post #52 that you put 'high level' in your plans.

Other people's postings have made me realise that the Electrician could have checked with me and I agree with this view so I attribute some of the blame to the Electrician.

Only one person has stated the electrician should have checked with you to correct your error in the plans, since your post #52 where you explain your error.

As I've said many, many times, (maybe it will be my signature at the end each posting), I agree that we are BOTH to blame.

IMO, and it seems many others, YOU are to blame. You put incorrect info in the plans. You got what you put in the plans.

I have also said it is my home and I will pay whatever it takes to get it fixed (#68). Obviously it would be great if he would move them at no charge but if he wants to charge me what can I do about it? Not a FAT lot - maybe I could consider imprisoning him at my house or buy a torture device to threaten him with.

And you still haven't discussed this with the electrician who did the job??????? Again, if you explain your mistake to the electrician he may move it for free.

 

[marc8]

Maybe chill a bit, by the wording of your last posts you are getting a bit hot under the collar nothing comes of getting yourself in a state over things that are already done, I would think most electricians on here are the same there are no real problems but solutions to issue's that have arrived. can you give us an update when you have spoken with you contractor about the situation or even get them to put there side on here.
then we get both sides of the story & can come to a conclusion about the issue's you have had after all it is a forum that you have inquired on?
think also I maybe to blame as I got a bit bored after 4 pages & just skipped to the end

 

[LCV]

Ha ha, I am fine. :cool4: I am not stressed about this at all. I am coming out of a full house renovation that I've project managed with a 5 year old and a baby, yes I have recently given birth, that started in May last year and have dealt with much bigger problems and issues than moving two plug sockets lower down.

The Electrician has unfortunately suffered an injury on another job so I am not sure when he is coming back - hopefully soon.

 

[Spoon]

Do you have any wallpaper left over? Saves you having to get a new roll just for one strip. Also will have the same product code as existing.

 

[LCV]

Yeah, I have some wallpaper left but not sure if it will be enough. Will need to check.

Spoon - as for your comment about not mentioning "high level" until much later on I mentioned it in my first posting #1. Not sure how you did the quote image thing but if you scroll to page 1 you will see it.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Can you tell me which posting you have read where I explicitly said 'I don't blame myself'? I find this strange to read because I blamed myself before I went on the forum, why? Because I wrote 'high level' in the plans. End of story.

Other people's postings have made me realise that the Electrician could have checked with me and I agree with this view so I attribute some of the blame to the Electrician.

As I've said many, many times, (maybe it will be my signature at the end each posting), I agree that we are BOTH to blame.

I have also said it is my home and I will pay whatever it takes to get it fixed (#68). Obviously it would be great if he would move them at no charge but if he wants to charge me what can I do about it? Not a FAT lot - maybe I could consider imprisoning him at my house or buy a torture device to threaten him with.

Now that you've posted that, prepare yourelf for a stampede of sparkies galloping through your door - all offering to do the job for nothing!! :ihih:

 

[Spoon]

Spoon - as for your comment about not mentioning "high level" until much later on I mentioned it in my first posting #1. Not sure how you did the quote image thing but if you scroll to page 1 you will see it.

Yes LCV you are correct, you did mention it in your original post. I am wrong... ( See what I'm doing here.... )
If you click on the 'Reply With Quote' on the bottom right of someone's post you get the quote.