Has my dishwasher been ruined?

[aroominyork]

The heat pump on my Bosch dishwasher needed replacing (it was tripping the electrics) so I called out the repairer under an extended warranty. He said the machine was jammed too tightly into a space and a cupboard at the side would need dismantling to access it, which he would not do. This might well be right - it was a very tight fit when installed. He said to get someone to dismantle the side cupboard but not to pull at the dishwasher door as that could damage it.

So, I got a local handyman in, explained the situation and left him to get on with it. When I came downstairs again the side cupboard had not been touched, the dishwasher had been removed and the door was off its hinges with the dozen or so thin coloured wires cut. He said the cupboard was built in so couldn't be moved and he had taken the door off so he could leverage the machine out of its space, that a couple of wires had torn so he cut the rest. He insisted they could be reconnected using wire connectors.

Dishwasher repair man comes back a few days later. He says they are low voltage wires which cannot be reconnected so the machine is now dead and cannot be used again. He said the wires are housed inside the machine and the fact that they were several inches outside probably means the door was pulled. He takes a few photos, says sorry and leaves.

I email handyman who replies "You can reattach the wires, I know you can with connectors as i have done it before, he obviously did not want too, the same as he did not want to pull dishwasher out in first place. Unfortunately you cant just take the side panel out, because the housing is a whole unit, the dishwasher needs to come out first so the housing can be removed as a complete unit, dishwashers are always pulled from the front out, i have probably removed over 20 over the years with not one problem, the hinge gave way and that tells me the hinge was damaged/faulty inside, did he look at the damaged door hinge and why it was so loose? He obviously did not want to do the added work..."

Who is telling me the truth, please?

 

[James]

Sounds like the dishwasher engineer was correct.
He said that it couldn’t be pulled out by the door as it would break.

Handyman pulled it by the door and it did indeed break.

Jointing the cables is not a good idea, especially as the engineer recommends against it.

 

[buzzlightyear]

so now you have no dish washer ,and no Andy man &no appliance engineer what are you going to do ,me get repaired by some body else ,send the bill the Mr diyer ,job done.
over the last month or so we had a couple of dishwasher story's.

 

[James]

Any claim for damages has got to go to the handyman
You asked him to take cupboard apart to facilitate removal of dishwasher, he instead just yanked dishwasher so hard the door broke off.

 

[Rockingit]

The heat pump on my Bosch dishwasher needed replacing (it was tripping the electrics) so I called out the repairer under an extended warranty. He said the machine was jammed too tightly into a space and a cupboard at the side would need dismantling to access it, which he would not do. This might well be right - it was a very tight fit when installed. He said to get someone to dismantle the side cupboard but not to pull at the dishwasher door as that could damage it.

So, I got a local handyman in, explained the situation and left him to get on with it. When I came downstairs again the side cupboard had not been touched, the dishwasher had been removed and the door was off its hinges with the dozen or so thin coloured wires cut. He said the cupboard was built in so couldn't be moved and he had taken the door off so he could leverage the machine out of its space, that a couple of wires had torn so he cut the rest. He insisted they could be reconnected using wire connectors.

Dishwasher repair man comes back a few days later. He says they are low voltage wires which cannot be reconnected so the machine is now dead and cannot be used again. He said the wires are housed inside the machine and the fact that they were several inches outside probably means the door was pulled. He takes a few photos, says sorry and leaves.

I email handyman who replies "You can reattach the wires, I know you can with connectors as i have done it before, he obviously did not want too, the same as he did not want to pull dishwasher out in first place. Unfortunately you cant just take the side panel out, because the housing is a whole unit, the dishwasher needs to come out first so the housing can be removed as a complete unit, dishwashers are always pulled from the front out, i have probably removed over 20 over the years with not one problem, the hinge gave way and that tells me the hinge was damaged/faulty inside, did he look at the damaged door hinge and why it was so loose? He obviously did not want to do the added work..."

Who is telling me the truth, please?

Ask the 'handy' man for his insurance details, tell him you'll be making a claim. It will then be up to his insurers to justify why they shouldn't have to pay out, and if he failed to adhere to a manufacturer's engineer's advice then they stand no chance.

 

[ruston]

They may ask how the original diagnosis was carried out. Was there another party involved?

 

[freddo]

Joining the wires in that position would be a bad idea as they will be flexing every time the door is opened and will surely fail. A new door wiring loom will be needed.

 

[westward10]

You really couldn't make it up.

 

[Rockingit]

You really couldn't make it up.

You can't fix stupid, only fix what Stupid does!!

 

[Zerax]

IMHO... you have two choices...

1) Spend the next 5-10 years pursuing some sort of legal remedy through the courts.
2) Put it down to experience and move on.

 

[telectrix]

handy man is a pillock. he broke it. sue him.

 

[nicebutdim]

IMHO... you have two choices...

1) Spend the next 5-10 years pursuing some sort of legal remedy through the courts.
2) Put it down to experience and move on.

I'd go with option 2, but would still be inclined to ask for details of his insurer as a means of putting the wind up him and, hopefully, making him think twice about future 'work'.

 

[telectrix]

ask hanyman to dig out for a pond in the garden. once he's down to 6 ft. whack him with his spade, drop him in the hole, fill in after.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - the door can be removed, but only after disconnecting the wiring loom, which is a bit of a job. No one cuts the loom off and and joins it up afterwards. Sorry, I mean no one I knew of till now.

Sorry to say it, but I think the DW is for the recycle as it’s now got 2 significant faults - the original heat pump tripping and a damaged wiring loom.

 

[buzzlightyear]

You really couldn't make it up

who the Andy man frank spencer .mmmmm. i got anadder word .lol

 

[James]

Whilst the broken machine is out.

I suggest that you measure the internal space, compare this with the recommended space required for new washer.
If it needs to be made bigger, now is the time.

The choice of tradesman for altering the cupboard is up to you but I think you might have already started a list of people not to use again!!

P.s. it is perfectly acceptable to ask someone over the phone before they come wether they are insured to undertake the work.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Technically, the wiring loom can probably be repaired by someone good with a soldering iron, but what you will then have is a non-Bosch-authorised modification, which is why Bosch guy won't do that. The loom could probably be replaced instead, but he probably doesn't want to do that either as he will be suspicious that the machine casing and door might be distorted too. By getting involved he could end up with a nightmare repair that costs nearly as much as a new machine, but ends with the customer calling back to complain it leaks and getting him back endlessly with the machine never being satisfactory. I'm sure he's thinking what I'm thinking and doesn't want the risk.

 

[DPG]

ask hanyman to dig out for a pond in the garden. once he's down to 6 ft. whack him with his spade, drop him in the hole, fill in after.

Dont forget to place warning tape above the body 'caution, cretin below'.

 

[aroominyork]

Thanks all - no-one here is defending the handyman... so nether will I!

Checking the Companies House website he is not registered, and his bank account (which I paid) is in his personal name. My guess is that he has no insurance. Also, unfortunately he is not on Checkatrade so I cannot threaten a bad review. So other than a small claims threat what are my options? (I have no problem with a small claim - it would take less than an hour and would put the wind up him).

Your question may be - what do I want? For a £569 dishwasher which, used about three times a week, would last about ten years, I would want half the value (£280) plus a refund of what I paid him. Is that fair?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Checking the Companies House website he is not registered, and his bank account (which I paid) is in his personal name. My guess is that he has no insurance. Also, unfortunately he is not on Checkatrade so I cannot threaten a bad review. So other than a small claims threat what are my options? (I have no problem with a small claim - it would take less than an hour and would put the wind up him).

so now you have start digging for information ,so where did you get him from ,and how do you
know if he got none insurance ,before you start saying this, you need to find out ,he could say
for argument sake you gave him the authority to get the appliance out .

 

[ruston]

Thanks all - no-one here is defending the handyman... so nether will I!



Your question may be - what do I want? For a £569 dishwasher which, used about three times a week, would last about ten years, I would want half the value (£280) plus a refund of what I paid him. Is that fair?

Maybe not when one of the main components failed in possibly half that time.

 

[nicebutdim]

Thanks all - no-one here is defending the handyman... so nether will I!

Checking the Companies House website he is not registered, and his bank account (which I paid) is in his personal name. My guess is that he has no insurance. Also, unfortunately he is not on Checkatrade so I cannot threaten a bad review. So other than a small claims threat what are my options? (I have no problem with a small claim - it would take less than an hour and would put the wind up him).

Your question may be - what do I want? For a £569 dishwasher which, used about three times a week, would last about ten years, I would want half the value (£280) plus a refund of what I paid him. Is that fair?

The handyman is absolutely correct in one regard - there's no way to take one unit out of a fitted kitchen without basically destroying it - not unless it was an end unit.

That being the case; it is precisely what he had been contracted to do and, if he felt it was not possible, he should have taken a leaf from the repairman's book, explained the situation, then followed your further instruction or apologised and left.

The small claims court is a further option and one that you could choose to follow if you so desire, but I would still, in the first instance, ask for details of his insurer and wait to see how he responds.

 

[James]

honestly, you are on a highway to nowhere with this.

the washer was to be repaired under an extended warranty, this suggests that it is outside the manufacturers 1 to 3 year warranty period.

the handyman has fcuked up, there is no denying that, however what he has damaged is a faulty machine.
the value of a faulty machine is roughly £0 as it serves no useful purpose and you would have to pay to have it removed.

the original engineer told you that it needed to be removed in a certain way to prevent damage, you have in there minds gone against recommendations and damaged the machine. (even though it was not you that did it, it was someone under your instruction)

If indeed the space was too small for the machine, then it would void any warranty from either the manufacturer or the extended warranty company.

one possible route may be the people who originally installed it, however that is a long shot in the extreme.

possibility's,
1
Take the extended warranty company to court,

they will argue that they did not damage it, told you to have it removed from its position in a safe way and they would return to fix it.
chance of winning any pay-out 0%

2
take the handyman to court

he will argue that you asked him to remove machine so others could work on it.
may even accept that you said remove side of cupboard to do it.
his options are

lie and say he just asked me to move it, no mention of not pulling it by door

suggest that a properly installed machine should be removed in the way that he did it and any damage was caused by incorrect installation, making it impossible to remove without damage.

say it was impossible to remove cupboard side without first removing machine as the fixtures were screwed in next to the machine and he couldn't access them.

chance of winning any pay-out 10% at best

3
approach the handyman's insurer directly.

a) he is not insured -quite possible if you didn't ask or check first.

b) they will argue that the loss is insignificant because of the age of the machine and the fact that it was already broken.

c) blame it on the original installers because a machine should be installed in a way that allows for removal encase of required maintenance.

4
take original installers to court

a) may not have worked for you, could have been previous owner or tenant
makes it hard to get anything from them

b) was well outside there complaints time, if there was a problem then it should have been reported at job completion, not x years later.

c) if you have not got proof that they did the work, could easily claim that they were never there.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
My suggestion, If the same thing had happened to me,
Buy a new dishwasher and have it installed
rethink who you have come and do work for you and check there qualifications / insurance etc.

check, recheck and double check the space you have before purchasing something to fit in it, have it listed in the order when you buy a machine, (must fit in space W600 D824 H582)

 

[Simon47]

It's the Fast Track Service in the Country Court (unless it's changed). Simple to do online, doesn't need lawyers, and should it get to a hearing they are relatively informal.
Of course, if the handyman has no assets then it'll be hard to enforce a judgement - but few have so few assets that they can't have £200-300 taken away. Most likely he'll cough up something to get you to stop - at least if he's any sense. Only a fool would continue to defend such negligence - the costs just go up and up, you can claim interest, and court fees, and enforcement fees (bailiffs), which all add to his bill.
Certainly worth looking into.

But also check out the space. If the instructions say "min 600mm" and yours is only 590mm then you've a problem. But if the instructions say min 590mm and you've got 600mm then the service engineer is in the wrong. I know in one of my properties I have an end space that's only something like 580mm when it should be 600 - had to shave a bit off the door because it wasn't shutting properly, and it limited the range of fridges available to fit. I suspect some kitchen fitter had a burning sensation in his lug 'oles when I spotted that.

 

[James]

It's the Fast Track Service in the Country Court (unless it's changed). Simple to do online, doesn't need lawyers, and should it get to a hearing they are relatively informal.
Of course, if the handyman has no assets then it'll be hard to enforce a judgement - but few have so few assets that they can't have £200-300 taken away. Most likely he'll cough up something to get you to stop - at least if he's any sense. Only a fool would continue to defend such negligence - the costs just go up and up, you can claim interest, and court fees, and enforcement fees (bailiffs), which all add to his bill.
Certainly worth looking into.

But also check out the space. If the instructions say "min 600mm" and yours is only 590mm then you've a problem. But if the instructions say min 590mm and you've got 600mm then the service engineer is in the wrong. I know in one of my properties I have an end space that's only something like 580mm when it should be 600 - had to shave a bit off the door because it wasn't shutting properly, and it limited the range of fridges available to fit. I suspect some kitchen fitter had a burning sensation in his lug 'oles when I spotted that.

if he has no free cash to pay, they will look at his income against expenditure.
chances are you will get a few £ a month ( if anything)

you could easily loose more than you optimistically can gain.

he says cupboard was to small to remove safely, court requires an independent survey, £200 spent for that,
£60 for court fees.
you are already risking more than you are likely to receive in pay out.

if it were me, i would give it up as a bad job, move on and enjoy life rather than spend the next 3 months worrying about a legal argument in court.

 

[Wilko]

My 20p is that the DW already had a significant fault and so was not in good repair prior to having its door ripped off. This pre-existing fault would further reduce the value of the machine at the time of the incident. Likely I would ask the chap for money back and move on, but thats just me.

 

[UNG]

The handyman is absolutely correct in one regard - there's no way to take one unit out of a fitted kitchen without basically destroying it - not unless it was an end unit.

There are ways to take units out of a fitted kitchen without destroying the unit or the kitchen and it doesn't have to be an end unit but I doubt your basic handyman would have the tools or knowledge to do it without causing problems

 

[aroominyork]

Thanks all. I'm going to have a go at him putting this right financially - I'm not optimistic but it's worth a try. This is/was a four year old £569 Bosch, used 2-3 times a week. Obviously asking him for the full value would constitute betterment, so how much do you think would be fair to try to get out of him?

 

[telectrix]

tel him. " you broke it, so fix it or replace it."

 

[James]

Have a look on eBay, I expect you can get a faulty 4 year old dishwasher free to someone willing to collect.

That gives you a starting point for your negotiation.

 

[aroominyork]

The point about value ("I expect you can get a faulty 4 year old dishwasher free") is that if he had not wrecked the machine, the heat pump would have been replaced under warranty and it would be working. So, what is the value of a four year old dishwasher with a new heat pump?

 

[DPG]

Agree with the OP, this could have been a warranty repair if some animal hadn't ripped it to bits.

 

[nicebutdim]

There are ways to take units out of a fitted kitchen without destroying the unit or the kitchen and it doesn't have to be an end unit but I doubt your basic handyman would have the tools or knowledge to do it without causing problems

There are ways and means of doing most stuff, but for practical purposes kitchen units aren't straightforward to remove.

I was curious why you'd disagreed with my previous post, so this explanation is helpful. Ironically you've more or less agreed with my point in a roundabout way.

 

[telectrix]

if a kitchen fitter can put it together, then my trusty hammer can surely take it apart. just recently cut down a kitchen unit from a double unit around 900mm to 300mm, to accommodate a dishwasher. refitted dvider as end panel, split a door and cut and rebuilt 6" narrower.

 

[UNG]

There are ways and means of doing most stuff, but for practical purposes kitchen units aren't straightforward to remove.

I was curious why you'd disagreed with my previous post, so this explanation is helpful. Ironically you've more or less agreed with my point in a roundabout way.

Kitchen units are not the difficult to remove unless it is a corner unit so I have no idea why you make it sound so difficult

I did not disagree with your post I put a dislike against it there is a difference. I don't see how I agreed with you in a roundabout way by suggesting a handyman may not be best equipped to remove a kitchen cupboard

 

[ipf]

tel him. " you broke it, so fix it or replace it."

By the sound of this. if he leaves him to it, like initially, he might just end up with a demolished set of kitchen units, too.?

 

[aroominyork]

if he has no free cash to pay, they will look at his income against expenditure.
chances are you will get a few £ a month ( if anything)

you could easily loose more than you optimistically can gain.

he says cupboard was to small to remove safely, court requires an independent survey, £200 spent for that,
£60 for court fees.
you are already risking more than you are likely to receive in pay out.

if it were me, i would give it up as a bad job, move on and enjoy life rather than spend the next 3 months worrying about a legal argument in court.

The only cost would be £35 of court fees. No survey cost as the engineer submitted a report to the insurer so I can use that. It won't take long to lodge and will hopefully put the wind up him so he settles. The dishwasher, used 2-3 times a week for four years and with a new heat pump, should have lasted ten years, so I'll claim 60% of its purchase cost (£569 x 60% = £340) plus the lost insurance excess (£50) plus £50 for his charge for wrecking it, total £440, and if he wants to settle will take £350.