Help needed. Garage wiring

[Afoster615]

Hi all, new to this forum, from northern ireland an keen to learn the art of electrical installation and theorys. But for now i need some help. Bought a house a couple weeks back, with 4 outhouses and a shed, that are wired up by what looks like a man that didnt have a clue. So i have my main 12 way CU which is wired to a 3 way switch box with old ceramic fuses in a spare room in the house by a 32amp mcb from the main CU. its covering 3 sockets in the kitchen and then wired to another old 3 way switch box / CU in the shed which has a couple sockets & lights wired to it (WHICH DO NOT CURRENTLY WORK) worked until last week then bang. Im planning on stripping this whole system and adding a 6way consumer unit into the spare room, via the 32amp mcb thats already been wired to the switch box,( reason im using 6 way is because ive got one new for free) then running 4mm amoured cable into the sheds to a new 3 way CU and wiring up 4 sockets + 3 lights. In my head it sounds fine, but i know its not the case so please someone who was mad enough to read this, enlighting me on this matter of what i can do. Thanks

 

[Afoster615]

Might i add, im not convinced wiring from 32amp mcb from main CU to 100amp main switch in sub CU is safe & useable, although it was previously done an is the way it sits.

 

[shaun1]

Hi,

Some questions....
What is the earthing arangement to the house?
Is the 32A Circuit you plan to use RCD protected?
Are there any RCDs in your new 6 way board?
Is your new board ammendment 3 complient (not sure if this applies to northern ireland but a metal enclosure with make the armoured terminations easier)
What equipment are you intending to supply in the sheds/garages?
Is the supply to the kitchen the only circuit in the kitchen?

 

[Afoster615]

Thanks for your reply. Not sure what the earthing arrangement is,
yes the 32amp circuit is protected with an rcd. 1 rcd in the new 6way board.
An both new CU are in compliance with the current regs.
Would only be running my 230v 150amp welder and some light use powertools. Grinder etc. No the kitchen is mostly wired from main CU there is just 3 sockets wired by the switch box.

 

[Octopus]

Dare I suggest you get "on the ground" advice from a local spark?

Without a site visit its almost impossible to advise

 

[Afoster615]

The only thing im not sure about is the connection from the main CU to the new Sub CU. 32amp mcb 6mm t&e to a 100amp main switch. Or can i do without the main switch an wire directly to the 63a rcd. There is only 2 circuits on the sub CU.

 

[Octopus]

Its not just about what you think ....

Do you have any test kit?

 

[Afoster615]

i will not be making the final connection, i will be wiring up the shed an pulling the swa into the house to be ready for the final connection. Im just after some education for now regarding the connection from the main CU to the sub CU.

 

[Octopus]

As I said, theres more to this than meets the eye, or DIY sites who often give out misleading advice

You seem determined on the bang test ......................

 

[Afoster615]

Im well aware of that. An in my eyes its a pretty simple job, its basically just doing the exact same job thats currently there, an has been for 20 years. Only difference is im looking to strip it all an use correct equipment + changing the 2 old boxes thats there.
Ill just add this in again.
I WILL NOT BE MAKING THE FINAL CONNECTION AND IT WILL BE INSPECTED AND TESTED BY A ELECTRICIAN.

 

[casperLennon]

Ask your electrician then.

 

[DavidSpark]

Hopefully I don't cause disrespect to you in any, however I believe what some have tried to say is that although you may just be replacing what is already there, what was already there might not have had any thought behind it.

Good design requires background information and knowledge of the current electrical installation.

Earthing arrangement
Is it suitable for exporting to various sites around your property and have you considered the possibility that you may need to install earth rods and such to comply with certain requirements of BS 7671.

Cable sizes
How have you determined the correct size of conductor to supply these out houses, have you taken the de-rating factors of the cable into account?

Ill just add this in again.
I WILL NOT BE MAKING THE FINAL CONNECTION AND IT WILL BE INSPECTED AND TESTED BY A ELECTRICIAN.

I am inclined to think that this statement is not true. However on the off chance it is, as you are wishing to learn the art of electrical installation and theory, perhaps you could get in contact with a local electrician and have them talk you through what you require and the reasons behind the choices before work begins. It'll go a long way in teaching you what you wish to know.

 

[Afoster615]

Umm, i know what the problem is, you 2 “qualified electricians” cant give any advice because yous dont actually know what to do in my situation.
I know in my profession if someone asked me for help id be glad to give some advice, but suppose when you dont know the answer its hard to give advice
Please go look up the meaning of a forum

 

[Afoster615]

That statement is not towards the last 2 comments.

 

[telectrix]

but suppose when you dont know the answer its hard to give advice

without knowing all the factors involved, nobody can give a definitive answer. if i ring my GP and tell him i've got a pain in my arse, how will he know how to advise whether to put the kids in care , get a divorce, stop advising DIYers, or take tramadol?

 

[DavidSpark]

Umm, i know what the problem is, you 2 “qualified electricians” cant give any advice because yous dont actually know what to do in my situation.
I know in my profession if someone asked me for help id be glad to give some advice, but suppose when you dont know the answer its hard to give advice
Please go look up the meaning of a forum

I was trying not to cause disrespect. The situation you have described isn't a hard one to solve.



Going by what the definition for "forum" is, it is my view that you do not have the required knowledge nor competence to complete this task to comply with all the relevant regulations.

Please enlist the help of a local electrician, and enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[Afoster615]

Davidspark. Thanks for your comment. Appreciate the feedback, something to think about. I know the easy and best option is to hire someone, but where am i going to learn anything I wouldnt get the chance to spend the days with the electrician when hes installing the wiring. And for advice around here off a spark is costly enough when callouts are £80+ But no your wernt correct in saying im not being honest in getting a spark to do the final connection, i understand how dangerous it is.

 

[Afoster615]

Seemed to have caused some annoyance. Wasnt intentsional, it was aimed at the 2 that cant give advice, even if yous thought i wasnt compentent in completing the work, a simple hire an electrican would of been sufficient.

 

[Afoster615]

Ask your electrician then.

Casper, I can see why your ----ed off, no work to go to? You obviously dont have much knowledge or you would have a job to go to. See ive met people like you before, sitting on forums giving abuse to people who want to learn new things, go get a job you bum, you know nothing.

 

[telectrix]

Casper, I can see why your ****ed off, no work to go to? You obviously dont have much knowledge or you would have a job to go to. See ive met people like you before, sitting on forums giving abuse to people who want to learn new things, go get a job you bum, you know nothing.

afraid this post is going to get you a few ignore clicks. wind it in.

 

[casperLennon]

Go wire ya garage. Oh yeah ya can’t. You say it’s £80 call out which is expensive but you are hiring one to final connect and test. I think you are a little liar. Be honest about what you’re trying to achieve and help might be there. I do know what I’m doing otherwise I wouldn’t be qualified. Good luck with you job.

 

[Afoster615]

What do people expect, im going to sit here an take abuse? No, wrong. I came here for advice and get nothing but disrespect.

 

[Afoster615]

Go wire ya garage. Oh yeah ya can’t. You say it’s £80 call out which is expensive but you are hiring one to final connect and test. I think you are a little liar. Be honest about what you’re trying to achieve and help might be there. I do know what I’m doing otherwise I wouldn’t be qualified. Good luck with you job.

Yes casper, £80 for a bit of advice, then to get him out again to make the final connection. You might be qualified but your certainly mustnt be any good at it. Its an interest i have an want to complete, its not about the money!

 

[Afoster615]

Il make sure you write to yous all when i have completed the installation, thanks so much for all your help, greatly appreciated

 

[davesparks]

Yes casper, £80 for a bit of advice, then to get him out again to make the final connection. You might be qualified but your certainly mustnt be any good at it. Its an interest i have an want to complete, its not about the money!

If someone wants to charge you £80 for giving a quite&advice then find another electrician.

I could tell you exactly how I would want things done if I was coming to make the final connections, but if another electrician saw it they may not like it and want it done another way.

There are multiple ways of doing a job and complying with the regulations, how can we know which way your electrician wants it done?

Also you’ve yet to tell us important information required before giving advice on a compliant design.
How did you calculate the size of SWA required?
What is the earthing arrangement, Ze of the supply and Zs of the existing sub-main?

 

[davesparks]

Il make sure you write to yous all when i have completed the installation, thanks so much for all your help, greatly appreciated

View attachment 40386

I think you will struggle to make a safe and compliant installation with the materials you have in that picture.

 

[Afoster615]

Thats what their charging around here for a callout, all i want in the sheds are a radial circuit for 4 - 6 sockets, circuit for 3 lights. Its 4mm t&e swa, running 3 meters from house to main shed garage CU into a 40amp rcd. Unfortunately i know nothing about the earthing.

 

[Afoster615]

I think you will struggle to make a safe and compliant installation with the materials you have in that picture.

What more what i need to make a compliant installation?

 

[casperLennon]

Unfortunately I know nothing about earthing. Well done and good start. You won’t be able to write when you blow ya fingers off ya daft sod.

 

[Afoster615]

Unfortunately I know nothing about earthing. Well done and good start. You won’t be able to write when you blow ya fingers off ya daft sod.

This is why im here for advice?

 

[casperLennon]

As people have said it’s not as simple as just giving advice. There are to many just wanting advice but in reality they want a step by step guide. To be fair why should we when we have all worked and studied hard and pay money to get where we are. Advice is fine, step by step is not

 

[Afoster615]

Yes, so i have explained my situation, been honest about not know weather the sheds are earthed, their old limestone, with 1 steel structural beam through. They have been wired with 6mm t&e to a switchbox in the shed which im looking to replace. Its been wired and working for 20 years so surely it is earthed. What type im not sure of. All i was after was a get an electrician, or yes im sure it can be done, even to a certain extent. But anyway, thanks.

 

[Spoon]

Its been wired and working for 20 years so surely it is earthed. What type im not sure of. All i was after was a get an electrician, or yes im sure it can be done, even to a certain extent. But anyway, thanks.

Hi mate.
Yes it may have been working for the past 20 years or even working before that but it's not up to current regs.
Take a 25 year old car. Yes it will still get you to the shops but it lacks all the modern safety features.
Same with wiring mate. You can't wire to regs 20 years old.

 

[Afoster615]

Hi spoon. Understand in that respect, to be honest its something i was exited about doing as ive always had an interest in domestic installation, but i guess for now i may just hire an electrician. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[ferg]

A lot of us have seen DIY bodges that make us go white.

Electrical work can look deceptively easy, with the right training and experience it can be.

BUT without the correct knowledge and experience you can end up with a functioning but incredibly dangerous installation.

The regulations are there to try and prevent death and injury not because we like spending a fortune on keeping up with the regs and test equipment.

You will be hard pressed to get the information you need here as most electricians do not want to encourage the kind of work we know to be potentially very dangerous.

I don't imagine this will make the slightest bit of difference to you but it's worth a try.

 

[Afoster615]

Hi ferg, thanks for your reply, this is what ive been after, some solid advice on why not to DIY. Im not going to ignore your honesty on electrical safety in relation to me installing it myself, so for that reason im going to source an electrician and see what he can offer towards this approach, thanks.

 

[Spoon]

Hi spoon. Understand in that respect, to be honest its something i was exited about doing as ive always had an interest in domestic installation, but i guess for now i may just hire an electrician. Thanks for your feedback.

House wiring does look easy, after all, its just wires. Some DIYers get angry with us some times when we don't give them the info they want. They know the principle but don't know how to do it correctly.
Not wanting to sound like an ---, but even brain surgery is simple, in principle. Brain Cancer: Open up the head, remove cancer, close head.
We have to work to regs and we will not give any info out that is out of date.
Personally I don't have any test kit, so last time I wanted work doing in my kitchen I got a guy in to do it, and also got a cert for the work.

 

[Afoster615]

House wiring does look easy, after all, its just wires.

Exactly what i was thinking before i started this thread.
When i walk around the house inspecting what way its been wired it seems relatively simple,obviously not tracking it to the beginning of the installation.
its a pity ive also no knowledge on current regs and earth bonding.
i have wired the kitchen with a new light circuit for down lights and undercupboard lights, which i why i thought this garage project would be do-able. But i appear to be wrong. And appreciate your advice

 

[telectrix]

any spark should be able to quote for the job FOC. then if you want to do the donkey work under his supervision, that could save you sme money.

 

[Devonchris]

Julius Caesar was giving advice down the Forum. When it went wrong he was stabbed in the back.

There were no ambulance chasing solicitors in his day so they resorted to the tried and tested method of compensation.

 

[telectrix]

et tu, brute.

 

[Afoster615]

Well, can safely say its all completed, every bit installed by myself, and inspected and tested by a qualified electrician, whom was more than happy with the work i had done. I guess any “donkey” can do these types of jobs.

 

[Spoon]

Well, can safely say its all completed, every bit installed by myself, and inspected and tested by a qualified electrician, whom was more than happy with the work i had done. I guess any “donkey” can do these types of jobs.

Congrats. Did the electrician give you a cert?

 

[DavidSpark]

Well, can safely say its all completed, every bit installed by myself, and inspected and tested by a qualified electrician, whom was more than happy with the work i had done. I guess any “donkey” can do these types of jobs.

Good to hear, you work fast for someone who was apparently working today while making 50k.

I'd love to see some pictures of your install that you done, we can give some feedback on what has been done to aid you in your learning of course.

 

[Afoster615]

Well yea your right, i wasnt working today. Feel free to come over an have a look. Guests are always welcome. Why have you to be so nasty about this davespark? Why not give someone a little credit. An take my word for it.
As the walls sockets etc where already wired in before it didnt actually take me that long to change over.
hardest part was connecting to new sub CU.

 

[Spoon]

So mate, did you get a cert from the electrician?

 

[DavidSpark]

Well yea your right, i wasnt working today. Feel free to come over an have a look. Guests are always welcome. Why have you to be so nasty about this davespark? Why not give someone a little credit. An take my word for it.
As the walls sockets etc where already wired in before it didnt actually take me that long to change over.
hardest part was connecting to new sub CU.

I am not being nasty, I do believe after giving you some friendly advice you started a personal attack against another person and I, as well as insulting and belittling us.

The whole "I have an Electrician coming to test it" routine is very old on this forums. No one believes it for a second as it is quite far-fetched that someone would simply turn up and put their name to something.

All electrical work (in the UK at least) requires certification. Perhaps not local authority notification depending on your area, but at least some kind of certification. If you didn't get a certificate then how do you know the installation was tested to the correct standard and complied with BS7671?

Also I didn't notice any glands in your pile of goodies, so that calls into question the installation methods of part of your install in my mind.

You came here seeking help with eagerness to learn, but all you have actually done is disregarded what people have said and took insult to genuine advice. Not an ideal way to learn is it?

 

[Octopus]

Well, can safely say its all completed, every bit installed by myself, and inspected and tested by a qualified electrician, whom was more than happy with the work i had done. I guess any “donkey” can do these types of jobs.

And I've just seen a pig flying past the window ...........

 

[Afoster615]

Such a bunch of immature children!
So because it wasnt in the box i didnt have it? What about all the tools i used aswell? Suppose ive screwed everything up with my hands because the tools werent pictured “in the box” IDIOT! And the regs over here is different than in england. Davidspark, i did mention in a comment underneath my rant that is wasnt aimed at you. There was no offence taken from your comment. And there is also no need for anyone to put their name to the work that was done. You may go read up on regulations in NI there are currently no statutory requirments for domestic installation in NI.

 

[davesparks]

Why have you to be so nasty about this davespark?

Nasty? I thought I’d behaved myself on this one!