Discuss I know it's old hat. in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
The sole reason I’m not registered with any scheme, it’s just a money making scheme imposed on us by others.
how does that work Will with work with you and signing it off.
Simple, don’t do domestic work, twice the money and half the hassle.
I know one contractor after going through revisit inspections was removed from the NICEIC roll and joined NAPIT straight after.
Someone tuched a nerve Vorty?This is all much ado about nothing. You get good and bad in every area/trade/position universally. If the government want to make a big deal about us electricians let us form a CPS for entering governance and let us see how many of the 650 members meet muster for morals (none?) skill(none) honesty(expenses scandal) and so on. I think I could winnow them down to a handful in a few weeks. And they dare to sit as our judge and master? Foscar Oxtrot!
Still doesn't resolve the fact, that even in commercial & industrial fields, there are contractors who don't come up to a sufficient standard.
Some of their clients have a clerk of works ( or whatever the title is these days), that carry out inspections of verification of installations. But many don't.
The question I was answering wasn’t about solving anything, the question was regarding how do you work without being registered with a scheme.
The simple answer is that you can work in the non-domestic sector without scheme membership, and make more money doing so.
Putting up a few lights for Mrs Miggins, ain't gonna make you much money. The trap is (being in the domestic market), you've got to be in a scheme (England & Wales) to make it financially viable.
All these schemes have done is take the pressure off LBC who would not have been able to cope when Part P came into effect. They have pulled in electricians who work in the new and existing domestic housing markets and for some good those like kitchen fitters etc.I could be incorrect but wasn't the initial thinking to have one scheme which the public could identify with like CORGI, now GasSafe. How on earth can electrical safety be correctly monitored with all these different schemes sniping at each other in an attempt to put THEIR head above the parapet.
Not sure what your point is Ant.All these schemes have done is take the pressure off LBC who would not have been able to cope when Part P came into effect. They have pulled in electricians who work in the new and existing domestic housing markets and for some good those like kitchen fitters etc.
Not sure what your point is Ant.All these schemes have done is take the pressure off LBC who would not have been able to cope when Part P came into effect. They have pulled in electricians who work in the new and existing domestic housing markets and for some good those like kitchen fitters etc.
my point is these schemes have come into being to admin for building control.Not sure what your point is Ant.
So what about us electricians that work in the commercial sector who want to something in their own home.Which is why I said you can work in the NON DOMESTIC sector without being registered with a scheme and earn more money doing so.
How does this answer #12?All these schemes have done is take the pressure off LBC who would not have been able to cope when Part P came into effect. They have pulled in electricians who work in the new and existing domestic housing markets and for some good those like kitchen fitters etc.
Which is why I said you can work in the NON DOMESTIC sector without being registered with a scheme and earn more money doing so.
No Mate to make the Directors rich people. That's the only reason.my point is these schemes have come into being to admin for building control.
Not sure the intention of Part P was to police anyone.
If it was, then they went about it the wrong way.
As it is the onus of compliance with Part P falls on the householder or person ordering the work.
The Competent Person Schemes ar nothing more than a register and a method of notifying work after the fact.
If a registered person conducts substandard work or is shown to be incompetent, Part P has no mechanism with which to censure or take that person to task.
All Part P can do is chase the householder or person ordering the work to put things right.
Trading Standards might be able to step in if work is sub standard and the Competent Person Schemes might ask the person to put any substandard work to rights.
Doesn't it mention somewhere that Part P was brought in (whatever that means) to ensure that Domestic electrical work complied with BS 7671 the Regulations, now most Electricians I know work well within BS 7671, so why all the carp about being Part P qualified, it's just BS and I don't mean British Standards either.Well anyway, disagree with your first paragraph.
Part P was brought into being, to 'which would bring domestic electrical installation work in England and Wales under the legal framework of the Building Regulations' (IET citation).
What other description would you give it then?
Disagree all you want.Well anyway, disagree with your first paragraph.
Part P was brought into being, to 'which would bring domestic electrical installation work in England and Wales under the legal framework of the Building Regulations' (IET citation).
What other description would you give it then?
Disagree all you want.
The fact is, that Part P is part of the Building Regulations.
As such, all that can be policed, is that the Building Regulations are complied with.
The method used is to serve improvement and enforcement orders on the householder.
Building Control have the authority to issue improvement orders, enforcement orders, even engage a contractor to remove whatever doesn’t comply.Ok I will.
It seems the primary method, would be the local building control requiring improvement. However they could also use Sec 36, to require removal or alteration of offending work. The council could have that carried out, and recover the costs from the building owner.
They could also use Sec 35 to carry out a prosecution 'If a person contravenes any provision contained in building regulations' (and Sec 7, compliances or non compliance of approved documents).
Whilst the building owner is ultimately responsible for complying with planning rules and building regulations, the section & act above allows for prosecution of persons, i.e. builder, installer or main contractor, not just the building owner.
Part P is only one of the approved documents.
Building Control have the authority to issue improvement orders, enforcement orders, even engage a contractor to remove whatever doesn’t comply.
However about all they can do with regards Part P, is do the householder for failure to notify.
Other than notification all that is required, is for an installation to be safe.
As the majority of LABCs don’t employ electrically qualified persons, how would they know whether an installation is safe or unsafe?
I have read the Part P document.
I have also read the Statutory Legislation.
All that is required, is for the work to be notified (which is the responsibility of the Householder or person ordering the work and for the finished installation to be safe.
Yes tradespersons can be prosecuted if they fail to comply with Building Regulations.
However with regards to Part P, it would have to be shown that the work done had resulted in an unsafe installation.
It would be more likely that an Electrician would be prosecuted for failing to comply with one of the other parts of the Building Regulations than for failing to comply with Part P.
I read one of them links towards the end and almost burst a gut laughing,here is part of a statement at the end of the case by the local authority
This is a great result for us; we are the only council in the country in three years to achieve a successful prosecution under electrical safety regulations contained with the building regulations. The building regulations are there to protect householders from cowboy builders, and this result sends a very clear message to contractors that local authority Building Control are here to protect the interests of householders
Is that not a big incentive to stick 2 fingers up to the part P procedure
Because only the householder or the person ordering the work can be prosecuted for failing to notify.This is going on somewhat, I don't see why you cannot except (or agree) that an individual (other than owner) can be prosecuted under Part P regs for either failing to notify or incorrect design or installation (the later uses BS7671 as the standard). There are examples of each in the links from my previous post.
Because only the householder or the person ordering the work can be prosecuted for failing to notify.
When I say person ordering the work, I’m thinking housing associations, Local Authorities, private landlords, etc.
An Electrician could be prosecuted if in the course of their work, they drill through a support beam and compromise the structural integrity of said beam.
Another scenario could be if the Electrician compromised the the fire protection or the sound insulation.
In this respect, this is how for gas with Gas Safe they have got it right although I have never understood how or why Corgie was done away with. The NICEIC would have been best placed to take on this role at the time all these schemes are here to make a profit.One scheme then no competition which was the original intention. Then as you say the yearly fee of £50.
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