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Discuss insert negative comments about Electrical Trainee here in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Yet more negativity. Here's a thought - let's be positive about something rather than insult everyone. I feel sorry for anyone doing these courses and then coming along to this forum - it must be a right kick in the teeth for them.

OK, so it's not an ideal situation, but it's happening and it will continue to happen. Apprenticeships unfortunately are a more outdated concept now, right or wrong.

Tin hat, etc. Daz
 
jesus.
lighten up, the thread was started as an (obviously failed) attempt at a humourous reply to something robd said in another thread. i know it's miserable monday, but get a grip.
 
the only sad negative thing about the Electrical Trainee situation is that in recent years this seems the only way to get your foot in the door into our trade so to speak, hopefully in a few years apprenticeships and traineeships will be on the rise and then the Electrical Trainee will be the last option for someone interested in electrical installation
 
Maybe I should lighten up. Just seems to be endless hammering of people lately. I know there's some stupid posts, but there again I've seen some 'proper' sparks that have asked shall we say 'surprising' question! Daz
 
the only sad negative thing about the Electrical Trainee situation is that in recent years this seems the only way to get your foot in the door into our trade so to speak, hopefully in a few years apprenticeships and traineeships will be on the rise and then the Electrical Trainee will be the last option for someone interested in electrical installation

Apprenticeships and adult courses are still there but theres an option for fast track and people take it...
 
Wow, I never thought I'd see the day....
I also have no doubt the system is flawed but I can't blame people for going the fast track route.
 
the only sad negative thing about the Electrical Trainee situation is that in recent years this seems the only way to get your foot in the door into our trade so to speak, hopefully in a few years apprenticeships and traineeships will be on the rise and then the Electrical Trainee will be the last option for someone interested in electrical installation

What a crock.

There's lots more wrong with the electrical trainee situation not least of which is the massive rip off that these people suffer by believing the hype drivel spouted off by the 'training centres'' that 'promise' a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Electrical Trainee is no way to get your foot in any door, let alone the electrical one. It's a non starter.
 
Electrical Trainee aren't the bad guys. The bad guys are those telling these people to spend £££s in the promise of earning £££££££££s. At least Electrical Trainee have got of their arse to try and make something of their lives.

The ones I can't stand are those with no quals or training whatsoever, those who don't respect electrical work at all, plumbers builders and "property developers' friends and family" who think they can have a go and assume we are ripping them off with our knowledge and experience are the enemy.
 
mod's........you might as well close this thread. it's obviously been received in a manner that was un-intended.

sorry to anyone who's taken offence.
 
Twist the knife again but why? I have seen short course guys that are much better sparks than apprentice trained ones in my time, although AT is my prefered route for my guys.
 
there will always be ar-se holes that prey on gullable fellas to make a quick £
they promise earnings beyond their wildest dreams--oh yeah
i,d love the owners of these schemes to reply on here
 
mod's........you might as well close this thread. it's obviously been received in a manner that was un-intended.

sorry to anyone who's taken offence.

Shagbite how did you intend it to go when you start with 'insert negative comments here'?
 
Twist the knife again but why? I have seen short course guys that are much better sparks than apprentice trained ones in my time, although AT is my prefered route for my guys.

No you Haven't!! Because it's just not possible!! There are rough time served electricians, that don't give a ----, but at least they know they are roughs!! lol!!
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ he beat me to it, there will never as long as every ones back side faces south, will an intense short course of less than 2 months ever ever be on par with a full time served course.

And if there are timed served guys that can be out shined by these intense course guys, I'm glad that I'm coming to the end of all this
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ he beat me to it, there will never as long as every ones back side faces south, will an intense short course of less than 2 months ever ever be on par with a full time served course.

And if there are timed served guys that can be out shined by these intense course guys, I'm glad that I'm coming to the end of all this

Amen!!
 
It would have been more interesting to post positive comments about Electrical Trainee, cause I can't think of any
Here's one then. There are guys on this forum who are products of the Electrical Trainee system (I'm not naming any names) The ones I'm talking about will know who they are. These guys have done the short course and realised exactly how limited they are at the end of it so they got off their backsides and went and got the knowledge that they needed to do what they needed to do. They stick rigidly to that and don't take any other work.
Some are very helpful posters and have gained a lot of respect from the guys like me who went down the apprenticeship route. Do I think the system is killing the trade? Yes I do.
Is it their fault? No
Hate the game, not the players guys.
 
I'm not saying apprenticeships are a thing of the past, but only that they are very hard to find these days and it will be a while until the number increases to decent rate to make these silly Electrical Trainee con courses obselete. I don't like the Electrical Trainee but as been mentioned you can't blame the people falling for it and handing over their hard earned, if there were any petitions to eliminate domestic installers I would personally sign it not out of spite for the people becoming Electrical Trainee but only to spite these riduculous companies selling false hope and creating some dangerous installers.

as for the old "I know Electrical Trainee better than apprenticeship served electricians" comment well that is just the only defensive lie a Electrical Trainee can utter when they can't defend against the common sense, fact of the matter is I know labourers which are more competant than domestic installers and I would swear to it, they have something that can't be bought experience...
 
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Debate is fine, but please lets not have this thread turn into another bashing thread that we end up constantly editing and asking people to be civil. not that its gone that way but by its very design it has the potential to.

I sit on the fence personally, i agree with a lot of comments that the 5 week route is woefully inadequate, but if someone who has walked this road knows their limits and strives to develop and grow from their on, i dont see the problem, and the potentialy have the building blocks to shine. likewise being a apprentice trained spark is not indicative of ability or a attitude, i have met apprentice trained sparks that i wouldnt let put lights on a xmas tree!!.

i liken this to passing a motorcycle test, 5 days of intesive full time training, where you are trained to to ride to a sylabus, test on the 6th day........if your lucky is a "congratulations you have passed". Does this mean you can ride?.......not at all, the attitude and commitment you show in the coming years to your new craft/skill/hobby/obsession will determine the standard of rider that you will be forever!, me?.......well i worked like mad at it, gave it everything, to the point where i am now a race instructor at the Ron Haslam Race school, teaching people to race around SIlverstone (all done in my spare time as its only 13 days a year). Does this sound similar to a Electrical Trainee by any chance??

And if the Electrical Trainee sticks to minor works then they probably are near enough qualified and trained to be doing this kind of work.
 
I don't put all the blame on these training centre's, just maybe the best part of it. Anyone with a modicum of commonsense would know that your not going to be able to learn much in, from several days to a few weeks. A lot of this is down to the ''I Want It All Now'' culture that seems to reign these days.

To be honest, the UK is going to end up with very few fully trained Electrician in the future!! Most of the electrical industry will have been totally deskilled by the parasites you have let get strangle holds over you, and that give nothing in return!! We'll be importing qualified electricians from overseas then, similar to some of the worlds Third National Countries are doing now!!
 
Credit were credit is due.. I envy them. after 3 years training i dont earn 50k+. Advertising and salesman dont lie therefore if id gone down the short route then id be earning a hell of a lot more..

On another note. When i did my regs course i didnt learn anything whilst doing this about actual wiring. Yeah what zones to install cables ETC but not the basics like errm i dunno.. What colour is Live (You get the picture).. Yet NICEIC will allow you to become a DI after completing just this and legally work on a domestic property.


Training is everything in this game, However im sitting on the fence on this one.. I have worked with times served aprentice sparks who have been useless and on the hand worked with people who have got into the industry by just the short course method and have actually been decent sparks but not after 5 weeks....

However one thing i will be adimint on is its impossible to learn everything in 5 weeks in order to deem you a compitanct electrician
 
Hello, my name is Ben, and i.... am a five week wonder.

I have never tried to hide this fact, i joined this forum knowing full well that once i walked out of the door from my "training centre", i was in fact hugely under experienced and was terrified to start work. Since that day, i have sought help for almost every issue i have faced via this site, and have never faced any abuse from the guys who have helped me. Now, two years later, after grafting my arse off and being completely open to criticism and advice from all creeds and angles, i feel a pretty competent. I have achieved my 2/3 year apprenticeship by understanding that i will never have learnt everything and by asking for help.

I genuinely feel this forum has taught me more then i learnt at my 8 week course.

At the time i decided to take the course, i had no idea about other routes available, i had a son to feed, and bills to pay, and saw the option to the learn a trade that i naively felt was a good and stable option. I left with a level of understanding that gave me a platform to develop on. Sure, some Electrical Trainee's are looking for a quick sign off to go out and do poor work, but by generalising and saying we al a bunch of incompetent cowboys is the same sort of prejudice that would lose you a few teeth if you were stood in the wrong place and applied it a little differently.

there is a lot wrong with the short courses, no one is standing against that, but not everyone has had the oppurtunity to put up 3 years to learn the trade the "proper" way, i left university and was rejected from the police, again, due to severe prejudices within that organisation as i had all my limbs, faculties and was not a homosexual, i wasnt allowed in without waiting 5 years. Not so ideal when money is an unfortunate necessity of life. I opted to learn something applicable instead.

I now work as a plant manager and have worked hard to get here and do the job i do and continue to apply what knowledge i have to my job when i need to, and feel free to go over all my old posts, you will note i am far from the top of the tree and never afraid to ask.

The course gave me an opportunity to expand my career in different directions, the problem is you guys who have worked hard at college and earned your badges the traditional way, simply resent the short courses for undermining your hard work. Everyone can totally sympathise and understand that point of view. But like i have said so many times before on this subject, as it appears i am the only lad with the stones to step forward and confess to being a Electrical Trainee, that we are all in the same trade some way or another, why are attacking each other and constantly abusing each other.

We would do a whole lot better, looking out for each other, no matter what the back ground, and trying to put an end to the "sparks" who really are a cause for concern who show zero effort in bettering their knowledge and work practices and blatantly disregard the industry.

At the end of the day, and this is a poor comparison but bear with it, we don't hate on those who take intensive driving courses over 2-3 weeks and then are left to their own devices to drive on the roads, and lets be brutally honest, more people are killed on the roads each year then they are by electrical mishaps. They stil need some time to find their feet, but after time, who is to say they are any worse drivers than those who learnt over 8 months? Absolutely nothing. Ability is a mixture of effort + time + experience the road we all took to get there is a different story.

It's time to stop beating each other up, and get on with our own stuff. If i picked up a big re-wire next week, £8 large for the job, not one of you lads would turn me down if i offered you the work to help me out. That much i know for a fact.

My name is Ben. I am an (8) week wonder :)
 
Completely stole your example high tower mate i hadn't noticed. Glad to see we are both on the same page but from opposite sides of the coin however.
 
Fair play to you there wade, good post...

Each week for 4 years at college only around 1 hour is practical, the rest is science's, maths, technologies etc all learning the under pinning knowledge. I think the problem isnt that it under minds our hard work but we know 4 years of under pinning knowledge is missing from the short course wonders, this wont be learnt by shadowing a spark or working as a sparkies mate for the few years after, by doing that you just pick practical knowledge/experience up, as an apprentice would the rest of the week he isnt at college.
 
I think it the scams that are killing it by allowing someone to join with only this limited training.

By all means do intensive c&g courses I don't see a massive problem with that. As long as your aware you have a piece of paper but no experience, and have not been sold the dream.

Then it would be down to employers to take people on as some with paperwork but no real practical skills. Then you would learn the trade.

What I do mind is the scams undermining the years of training the rest of us have done.

If the scams wouldn't take Electrical Trainee the it wouldn't give them electrician status instantly
 
Robert, are you a fully trained spark, rather than a Electrical Trainee then? Daz
 
Would anyone be able to tell me what Electrical Trainee and electrical trainee electricians are? I have seen the terms mentioned a few times on the forum and was just curious.
 
5 week wonder or 3 or 8 ect ect, basically not electricians but domestic installers, they do very basic courses with no actual qualifications then they pay one of the part p scams a lump of money and then are allowed to install in homes in the uk, not many real electricians view these Electrical Trainee as nearly competant enough and it is a continuing dispute that will never be resolved
 
It doesn't matter whether you're a Electrical Trainee, 8ww or an apprenticeship trained spark, there are muppets who don't know what they're doing or just can't be bothered in each catergory, i know some apprenticeship trained time served sparks near me that i wouldn't trust to wire a plug and some Electrical Trainee the same, its all down to the kind of person you are and if you're willing to learn and keep learning. There's too many on this forum that are just here to ridicule people rather than help!
 
Never Judge a book by it's cover, but it is difficult to be a spark with these silly length courses, however the system is at fault not the people trying to improve themselves, I have worked with time served sparks with a brain smaller than a pickled onion, and mates with a lot of knowledge who have never been to college, unfortunately this is where the trade is at, it is up to us to try and guide those with less knowlege, providing they don't ask DIY questions haha
 
Would anyone be able to tell me what Electrical Trainee and electrical trainee electricians are? I have seen the terms mentioned a few times on the forum and was just curious.
Literally "5 Week Wonder".
It's someone who thinks they can change a plug and therefore thinks they can make money as an electrician without having to bother with any kind of on the job training because they're in their 40s and have life experience instead.
Unscrupulous training providers will cash in on their ego by telling them what they want to hear and selling them a load of short courses for a lot of money (some over a period of as little as 5 weeks) which give them the bits of paper, then after changing their consumer unit at home for their assessment are let loose on the general public with no real idea as to what they're doing.
As mentioned 5WWs tend to be in their 40s and previously worked in IT after having been told "there's money in computers" then had their job outsourced to India, and have now been told "the money" is in trades now such as plumbers and electricians. Many became electricians because they'd heard there was more money in it than becoming a driving instructor and didn't go into plumbing because they didn't want to have to go near other people's poo.
 
Literally "5 Week Wonder".
It's someone who thinks they can change a plug and therefore thinks they can make money as an electrician without having to bother with any kind of on the job training because they're in their 40s and have life experience instead.
Unscrupulous training providers will cash in on their ego by telling them what they want to hear and selling them a load of short courses for a lot of money (some over a period of as little as 5 weeks) which give them the bits of paper, then after changing their consumer unit at home for their assessment are let loose on the general public with no real idea as to what they're doing.
As mentioned 5WWs tend to be in their 40s and previously worked in IT after having been told "there's money in computers" then had their job outsourced to India, and have now been told "the money" is in trades now such as plumbers and electricians. Many became electricians because they'd heard there was more money in it than becoming a driving instructor and didn't go into plumbing because they didn't want to have to go near other people's poo.

My my, what a sweeping generalisation there. So all people who take a 5 week course are as you described are they? I reckon you have probably upset a few decent people there. Daz
 
Literally "5 Week Wonder".
It's someone who thinks they can change a plug and therefore thinks they can make money as an electrician without having to bother with any kind of on the job training because they're in their 40s and have life experience instead.
Unscrupulous training providers will cash in on their ego by telling them what they want to hear and selling them a load of short courses for a lot of money (some over a period of as little as 5 weeks) which give them the bits of paper, then after changing their consumer unit at home for their assessment are let loose on the general public with no real idea as to what they're doing.
As mentioned 5WWs tend to be in their 40s and previously worked in IT after having been told "there's money in computers" then had their job outsourced to India, and have now been told "the money" is in trades now such as plumbers and electricians. Many became electricians because they'd heard there was more money in it than becoming a driving instructor and didn't go into plumbing because they didn't want to have to go near other people's poo.

that is exactly the case and couldn't be more correct, it is 99% money chasers believing the £50k a year sign then arguing their right to be in the trade calling themselves electricians
 
My my, what a sweeping generalisation there. So all people who take a 5 week course are as you described are they? I reckon you have probably upset a few decent people there. Daz
No I didn't say that at all - I described a Electrical Trainee (5 week wonder), I didn't generalise everyone who has done a 5 week course. The idea behind the 5 week course is for people who have worked for years as a mate and never got round to going to college, not (as I described) someone who sees it as a quick route into getting rich quick by driving around in a van putting plugs on things and changing switchplates.

Every Electrical Trainee will have done a short course.
Not everyone who has done a short course is a Electrical Trainee.
 
Long and short is lads, if someone is competent to carry out a job, adheres to regulations set out by the governing bodies and is deemed fit to work by those who police the industry, then they have just as much right to go and make a living as anyone else irrespective of how you achieved your knowledge.

Some of the guys who did my course with me have gone on to being very successful and endevoured to read, absorb and soak up as much knowledge as possible. I can't get over how high and mighty you ignorant people are, sat in your ivory towers of righteousness JUST because you did an apprenticeship or went to college and resent the fact there are some guys out there, smart enough, to just get on with it a different way.

It's getting old this whole conversation, just put it to bed. If a bloke can carry out the job safely and competently, whatever it may be who cares how he learnt the skills to do it?
 
Totally agree mate, this conversation was old when I joined the forum so the lads who have been here longer must look at this and think oh bugger here we go again.
Bottom line is the system as it stands is here to stay and no amount of bitching and moaning is going to change that. Yes we've been raped by the government and the schemes but it's too late. We allowed it to happen so we have to make the best of it.
Lets put all this playground I'm better than you nonsense away, it's boring now.

Time now for me to unsubscribe from this thread.
 

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