Installing an additional room thermostat

[SYKRAPS]

"Hello MJD",

Thanks for not taking offence to what I wrote - it was not meant to just contradict You - I felt that I had to put a Heating Engineers point of view.

What You stated about having seen countless Heating Systems that did NOT have a Room Thermostat is doubtless correct - BUT that was never the correct way to Install / Control a Heating System.

Systems that were installed in Homes in the 1970`s - when `normal` / working class Homes first started to have Central Heating - were almost invariably installed by Companies and `Plumbers` who really had NO Idea about Energy Efficiency and the correct control of those Heating Systems - also Gas was relatively Cheap / Affordable in those Days.

Those were the Days before Zone Valves were readily available and there were `Mechanical Control Valves` for Hot Water Cylinder Heating / Primary Flow Control - E.G: `Cytrol Valves` and other Manufacturers Mechanical Valves - however Room Thermostats were available.

This also applied to MANY Heating Installations throughtout the subsequent Decades - Companies were installing Heating Systems with ONLY Thermostatic Radiator Valves and Programmers / Timeswitches right up to the Legislation for Energy Efficiency / Part L of the Building Regulations - `Conservation of Heat and Power` - that still did NOT mean that this was correct.

These next details are dealing with the Heating ONLY - for purposes of clarity I don`t want to have to keep including things like `If the Hot Water Cylinder heat requirement is satisfied` etc. in My explanations.


When a Heating System has Thermostatic Radiator Valves and NO Room Thermostat the Boiler is `ON` all of the time that the Programmer / Timeswitch [depending on the system] Setting is `ON` - Irrespective of whether ALL of the Thermostatic Radiator Valves are CLOSED or not the Boiler will keep `Cycling` ON and OFF to keep satisfying the setting on the Boiler Thermostat - this uses Gas unnecessarily - hardly an Energy Efficient System.

So imagine that ALL of the Rooms heat requirements / TRV`s are satisfied at any particular time [however unlikely] - the Boiler will keep firing ON and OFF to keep the water in the Heating Syatem Pipework and Boiler Heat Exchanger at the Temperature as set on the Boiler Thermostat - what a waste of Gas and Money for the Householder.


If there is a Room Thermostat AND Thermostatic Radiator Valves on all Radiators EXCEPT in the location where the Room Thermostat is located [this Radiator should ideally have two lockshield radiator valves] - when the Room`s heat requirement as set on the TRV is satisfied the TRV will close down stopping the Flow to the Radiator thus saving heat production for each Room - when the area where the Room Thermostat reaches the temperature as set on the Room Thermostat the stat will shut down the Boiler - stopping the `Cycling` / firing to keep the Boiler Thermostat satisfied by unnecessarily heating the water in the system Pipework and Boiler Heat Exchanger.


It is of course VERY important that ALL the Radiators are Calculated correctly - especially the Radiator where the Room Thermostat is located - as otherwise the Heating System would not operate efficiently.


I hope that this may be helpful to other Members / Readers.


Regards,


Chris - Heating Engineer

Your comments make sense and are correct IMO, but how would you suggest the OP should remedy the issue that is present in his situation if he does not want to alter the pipework and install zoning?

I suggested earlier in the thread that the only way that I could see of coming up with a practicable remedy would be a portable wireless stat, IYO would this satisfy Part L?

Regards SYKRAPS.

 

[chris murphy]

Your comments make sense and are correct IMO, but how would you suggest the OP should remedy the issue that is present in his situation if he does not want to alter the pipework and install zoning?

I suggested earlier in the thread that the only way that I could see of coming up with a practicable remedy would be a portable wireless stat, IYO would this satisfy Part L?

Regards SYKRAPS.

"Hello SYKRAPS",


The OP`s post is basically just asking if He can wire up another Room Thermostat - I thought that this had been answered by a couple of Members.

With regard to satisfying Part L of the Building Regulations by fitting / using a wireless Room Thermostat which could be moved around the Home - Absolutely NOT.

BUT your suggestion might be a good idea for the OP`s immediate requirements - ?

The facts of adhering to Part L where it relates to Heating Systems Controls are very simple:

You MUST have the Controls - Programmers / Timeswitches [system appropriate] - Room Thermostat [VITAL] preferably Programmable Room Thermostats - Zone Valves [to Zone the Heating system / for Cylinder] - Thermostatic Radiator Valves - Cylinder Thermostat [and possibly a Frost Thermostat and Pipe Thermostat for Boilers in locations which could become very cold].


ONLY with the necessary Controls can a Heating System both operate correctly / with energy efficiency and adhere to Part L of the Building Regulations - there are NO `short cuts`.


I would hope that My `Comments` about Heating Systems `make sense and are correct` - as I am a Heating Engineer.


Regards,

Chris - Heating Engineer

 

[electric will]

Deleted post

 

[SYKRAPS]

"Hello SYKRAPS",


The OP`s post is basically just asking if He can wire up another Room Thermostat - I thought that this had been answered by a couple of Members.

With regard to that satisfying Part L of the Building Regulations by fitting / using a wireless Room Thermostat which could be moved around the Home - Absolutely NOT.

BUT your suggestion might be a good idea for the OP`s immediate requirements - ?

The facts of adhering to Part L where it relates to Heating Systems Controls are very simple:

You MUST have the Controls - Programmers / Timeswitches [system appropriate] - Room Thermostat [VITAL] preferably Programmable Room Thermostats - Zone Valves [to Zone the Heating system / for Cylinder] - Thermostatic Radiator Valves - Cylinder Thermostat [and possibly a Frost Thermostat and Pipe Thermostat for Boilers in locations which could become very cold].


ONLY with the necessary Controls can a Heating System both operate correctly / with energy efficiency and adhere to Part L of the Building Regulations - there are NO `short cuts`.


I would hope that My `Comments` about Heating Systems `make sense and are correct` - as I am a Heating Engineer.


Regards,

Chris - Heating Engineer

Thanks Chris

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello again SYKRAPS",

No problem - I hope that My Posts on the Forum about Heating and Gas matters are helpful to Members and other readers - as that is My primary reason for being involved on the Forum - as a SMALL `Pay Back` to the Forum / Members / Electricians - for being helped with a wiring enquiry by topquark about a Year ago.


Regards,


Chris


P.S. - It looks like I have upset electric will ? - Deleted Posts 2 Nights running.

 

[Geordie Spark]

If split up and down and via the method you have just mentioned then yes quite right a good method, I agree with this.

Thank you MDJ

That is exactly what I meant & is how the heating in my own house is done but I use Programmable Room Stats - one upstairs & one downstairs - and have removed the normal time clock from the boiler.

The Programmable Room Stats do the job of the timer and allow for different temperatures to be selected & maintained at different times of the day and night for both floors. It's very flexible and works well.

 

[csj]

Thanks again for all the comments (including the controversies that my initial query seem to have stirred up).

For your information, I eventually installed a Celect (£25) remote room thermostat which now works fine. I installed it in parallel with my existing non-remote bedroom thermostat and only managed to blow one 13A plug fuse in doing so (but had made sure that only the pump and not the boiler was not connected in case of very expensive mistakes).

The instruction guide was pretty pathetic and I had to figure out the wiring mainly from basics. Reading reviews on Amazon of even more expensive ones like Honeywell seems to indicate that instruction guides are not very well presented on most of them. This is possibly because many (most?) of them are manufactured in the Far East where English is not the first language.

Anyway, all's well that ends well and I'm quite happy with what I achieved.

 

[chris murphy]

Thanks again for all the comments (including the controversies that my initial query seem to have stirred up).

For your information, I eventually installed a Celect (£25) remote room thermostat which now works fine. I installed it in parallel with my existing non-remote bedroom thermostat and only managed to blow one 13A plug fuse in doing so (but had made sure that only the pump and not the boiler was not connected in case of very expensive mistakes).

The instruction guide was pretty pathetic and I had to figure out the wiring mainly from basics. Reading reviews on Amazon of even more expensive ones like Honeywell seems to indicate that instruction guides are not very well presented on most of them. This is possibly because many (most?) of them are manufactured in the Far East where English is not the first language.

Anyway, all's well that ends well and I'm quite happy with what I achieved.

"Hello csj",


Thanks for posting what You decided upon to make your Heating System `more controllable` regarding Temperature Control.

I hope the details that I and the other Members wrote were helpful to You.

There should have been no controversy about the Installation and use of a Room Thermostat - although your Heating System is NOT installed as one of the `Normal` Configurations regarding Timed and Temperature Controls.

I am sure that Honeywell Controls have clear Installation / Wiring Instructions - I would rate them as `World Leaders` in Heating Controls - although when I wanted to get a Battery operated Programmable Room Thermostat for My own Home they did not have one that could be wired with just 2 Cores [existing Stat cable] and I had to go for a Horstmann Programmable Room Thermostat.

Horstmann is a recognised Manufacturer of good quality Heating Controls - and I had to ask on here about the `Wiring Diagram` for that - but it was because I am not an Electrician that I wanted to check what the Diagram showed.


Glad to read that You now have better Temperature Control of your Home`s Heating System.


Regards,


Chris - Heating Engineer