Kitchen appliance sockets and safe zones - right or wrong?

[cliffed]

Designated zones,just keep in line with sockets installed,then fit the others in a cupboard that suits,no need for switch above units.
Say a little pray...electricians always moaning,& pretending to be God,have a nice weekend

 

[willy fixit]

I put in sockets behind cupboards and the kitchen guy refused to put any cut outs in the backs to allow access. Waiting for the call when the w/mc has a fault and they call him back to unplug it. At least it can be isolated (Grid Switches - yuck).
Somehow managed to lose contact with him. Such a shame... not!

 

[cliffed]

I put in sockets behind cupboards and the kitchen guy refused to put any cut outs in the backs to allow access. Waiting for the call when the w/mc has a fault and they call him back to unplug it. At least it can be isolated (Grid Switches - yuck).
Somehow managed to lose contact with him. Such a shame... not![/QUOT
Typically fitter

 

[Dave OCD]

Always sockets in the cupboards for me too but if at all possible I'll bring the cables down the side from the rear in a little bit of trunking [or even clipped if the unit is sturdy] and mount the socket/s near the front of the base unit at a sensible height.

 

[Deleted account]

I personally would do it the way your electrician has stated. Isolator above, unswitched sockets/ outlet plates below.
Better design access for isolation. Part M has been taken into account.
Your way can be acceptable, but I would be strongly advising my way.
One thing I would do differently is I would have the unswitched socket /outlet plates in the cupboard next to appliances due to space issues with appliance.

 

[Dave OCD]

I personally would do it the way your electrician has stated. Isolator above, unswitched sockets/ outlet plates below.
Better design access for isolation. Part M has been taken into account.
Your way can be acceptable, but I would be strongly advising my way.
One thing I would do differently is I would have the unswitched socket /outlet plates in the cupboard next to appliances due to space issues with appliance.

In that case wouldn't it be just as well to put the switched socket in there and save an unnecessary accessory and connection.

 

[rolyberkin]

These cases are a little bit about good practice, becoming a reference when it is then best to refer to how we get there. As at least two people have mentioned the key word "access". We even have 513.1 ACCESSIBILITY to help us.

I am working on a kitchen this week and next, so interested in this post. The gist of the regs is, a socket shall be arranged to facilitate its operation, inspection and maintenance. This should not be impaired by mounting it in an enclosure or a compartment.

The use of an isolator above the worktop, meets the requirement easily, anything else has to be thought about and meet 513.1. My first thought is the reg is not met if you put your isolator at the back of or behind a cupboard. Regards

Don't agree with this view, personally it looks a lot better if the socket is hidden in the back of a cupboard. It is accessible for isolation even if someone has to move a box of weetabix to get to it.
Next we will have someone raising the issue of cutting plugs off appliances and invalidating the warranty again, pass me another beer!

 

[Deleted account]

In that case wouldn't it be just as well to put the switched socket in there and save an unnecessary accessory and connection.

Because it does not address accessibility ( part M)

 

[Dave OCD]

Well I'd argue that my way as described in post #24 would be much more accessible to a disabled person than reaching over the worktop.

 

[AlphaBanana]

Wow, lots of replies - big thank you to all for your advice. Seems all pretty much agree this electrician is wrong, apart from Paignton Pete - there had to be one

Regarding access to the sockets - I'll be fitting all kitchen and utility room units myself, and I'll probably leave the back off that cupboard, or otherwise cut a hole for each socket, because my entire point is to keep them accessible.

On a new build... Doubt if the OP has this issue?

Not a new build, so no I don't have the problem of having to comply with that, thankfully. To Paignton Pete: I understand what you mean, but I'm not fussed about part M, so bearing that in mind, could I ask you something? If I was offering you this job, you'd explained all this to me, strongly recommending your way for easier access, and I still wanted it done my preferred way, would you refuse to do it?

Perhaps he would be happier if the drop aligned with an outlet (as in 4) but then continued down to the lower level, then 90 degree turn and run horizontal to the appliance connections (as in 2).

Thanks for the idea, that sounds a good compromise, I'll have to see if he'd be happy with that.

...best in cupboards, using diagram #4, but isolators are not necessary...

Did you mean diagram #2 rather than #4, or am I misunderstanding you?

all he's got to do is stick one d/socket in base unit. why have two.

Because I've read that a double socket still has max 13A rating but these 2 appliances together could go over that, and therefore it's safer to use 2 singles. Even if it's only a theoretical problem or if there's disagreement over it, erring on the safe side seemed logical.

Crimson - where's the bad spelling?

 

[Baker1988]

Because I've read that a double socket still has max 13A rating but these 2 appliances together could go over that, and therefore it's safer to use 2 singles. Even if it's only a theoretical problem or if there's disagreement over it, erring on the safe side seemed logical.

13A per point not 13A combined so technically 1 double will still be the same as 2 singles as there is 2 points to plug into that been said your paying so it ultimately up to you want get as your paying for it (as long as its safe and within regs which it is)

 

[Deleted account]

Wow, lots of replies - big thank you to all for your advice. Seems all pretty much agree this electrician is wrong, apart from Paignton Pete - there had to be one

To Paignton Pete: I understand what you mean, but I'm not fussed about part M, so bearing that in mind, could I ask you something? If I was offering you this job, you'd explained all this to me, strongly recommending your way for easier access, and I still wanted it done my preferred way, would you refuse to do it?

At the end of he day you are the customer so I would do what you requested, yes.

And I prefer your electricians design to a point, but I do think he is wrong about not being able to do it your way.

There is a difference between what you are permitted to do and what you choose to do. Your electrician has chosen not to do it but he is permitted to do it.

Cheers pete

 

[AlphaBanana]

Thank you Pete, that's a huge help. All confirms he's wrong to tell me that way isn't legal.

I'd really rather not have the fuss and wasted time of having to find someone else, so if he still says no, then I'll see if he'd be happy to do it by adding his isolating switches next to the double sockets above the worktop, while keeping the appliance sockets in the cupboard (hiding the sockets is the part where I won't compromise). The safe zone thing for the cabling is just an annoyance becuse I've already run the trunking, but not worth fussing over, I can easily run more.

Big thanks again to everyone on this thread.