Landlords own electrical remedial work

[RobJ2778]

Hope this is ok and also posted in the correct section as this is my first post. As a landlord can I do my own electrical repairs/modifications or is there a legislation that prevents this. I know there is new legislation that requires a safety check every 5 years but is there a specific legislation that dictates I must use a registered electrician for any work other than a safety certificate or is it just considered best practice?

 

[Strima]

You would need to speak to your insurers to see if they would cover you doing electrical work.

 

[Timbo]

How will you prove competency?
And issue certification.

 

[RobJ2778]

You would need to speak to your insurers to see if they would cover you doing electrical work.

But beyond that I could conceivably do my own electrical repairs, the only thing stopping me would be insurance cover potentially being voided?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Are you filmarsed with bs7671. and what is required.

 

[RobJ2778]

How will you prove competency?
And issue certification.

This is my thought, I am not actually considering doing this myself. It is a family member that is currently renting and the landlord has installed his own pre-pay meter and did the work himself. I cant find a definitive answer on the legality of this, it has not been checked by a registered electrician either.

 

[Dustydazzler]

If it’s a repair in the truest sense like replacing a smashed light switch then I would just get on with it

if it’s a repair to The fixed wiring like replacing cables , then perhaps leave it to the pros

 

[buzzlightyear]

But beyond that I could conceivably do my own electrical repairs, the only thing stopping me would be insurance cover potentially being voided?

And the electricity work act, HSE.

 

[littlespark]

Theres nothing to stop anyone doing electrical work in their own home.... thats why the big DIY sheds stock everything from a 3A fuse to a consumer unit..... However, when its being rented out, then you have the "General Public" to worry about

 

[RobJ2778]

Theres nothing to stop anyone doing electrical work in their own home.... thats why the big DIY sheds stock everything from a 3A fuse to a consumer unit..... However, when its being rented out, then you have the "General Public" to worry about

My thoughts exactly but I want to be able to quote legislation when I take this landlord to task, being a landlord myself who does everything within the guidelines and legislation it infuriates me when others think that the rules dont apply to them.

 

[Wilko]

It is a family member that is currently renting and the landlord has installed his own pre-pay meter and did the work himself.

I won’t comment on the legality as I’m not skilled in matters legal, but an unskilled labourer working unsupervised doing electrical work is clearly not the right thing to do. Sorry to say, but if that’s the approach to electrical work one has to be concerned about the gas installation too... If you post a pic of the DIY meter installation I’m sure you’ll get feedback.

 

[DefyG]

As most LL areas are accessed by tenants/general public the LL has a duty of care to ensure that the areas are safe, not just from an electrical perspective either. (Of course nothing will be done unless there is an accident).
There may come in time an EICR required for LL areas but one step at a time!

 

[Lister1987]

If you are a landlord and you are renting out for property then by definition that would make you a commercial entity, which by extension means you MUST comply with Electricity at Work Regulations.

Attached should be 2 publications from the HSE,

HSR25 - Memorandum on The Electricity at Work Regulations

HSG85 - EAWR Safe Working Practices.

(If they haven't attached, just Google 'HSG85' and 'HSR25', or just EAWR)

HSR25 explains every regulation in detail and how to comply. As a landlord the one you want to pay particular interest to is Regulation 29

Defence. 29. In any proceedings for an offence consisting of a contravention of regulations 4(4), 5, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 or 25, it shall be a defence for any person to prove that he took all reasonable steps and exercised all due diligence to avoid the commission of that offence.

In short; Did you do everything you could to prevent danger or matters that may give rise to danger.

There are others in there that govern,among other things

• Safe working practices
• Connections
• Protection
• Competency

The latter is the most important as a person that is competent should be able to comply with the other regulations with relative ease.

Read the aforementioned documents, any questions by all means come back with them.

 

[moose]

The Landlord I think is saying can he change a light. Switch. Socket. etc

He did say he would be getting cert every 5 years i think......

 

[Simon47]

It is a family member that is currently renting and the landlord has installed his own pre-pay meter and did the work himself. I cant find a definitive answer on the legality of this, it has not been checked by a registered electrician either.

All assuming England - the rules differ between the four counties in the UK.
As stated, IF the person doing the work is competent to do so (and has the appropriate test equipment), then it is legal for them to do it. If the work doesn't include notifiable work then there's no notification to do. The ONLY notifiable works in England are replacement of a CU, addition of a circuit, work within the zones of a bathroom.

However, when you say the landlord installed his own pre-pay meter, is this in addition to (and downstream of) the supplier's meter ? It would be illegal for him to interfere with the existing meter.
There are a load of regulations that come into play when a private meter is installed, so unless he's signed up with one of the outfits that manage this sort of thing, it's highly likely that he's breaking some regulation or other relating to the private metering.

 

[7029 dave]

All assuming England - the rules differ between the four counties in the UK.
As stated, IF the person doing the work is competent to do so (and has the appropriate test equipment), then it is legal for them to do it. If the work doesn't include notifiable work then there's no notification to do. The ONLY notifiable works in England are replacement of a CU, addition of a circuit, work within the zones of a bathroom.

However, when you say the landlord installed his own pre-pay meter, is this in addition to (and downstream of) the supplier's meter ? It would be illegal for him to interfere with the existing meter.
There are a load of regulations that come into play when a private meter is installed, so unless he's signed up with one of the outfits that manage this sort of thing, it's highly likely that he's breaking some regulation or other relating to the private metering.

I have seen a situation where a PPM has been provided on the suppliers side, and a coin meter in the flat too fitted by the LL, both meters were being fed by the tenant, IMO morally wrong.

 

[RobJ2778]

All assuming England - the rules differ between the four counties in the UK.
As stated, IF the person doing the work is competent to do so (and has the appropriate test equipment), then it is legal for them to do it. If the work doesn't include notifiable work then there's no notification to do. The ONLY notifiable works in England are replacement of a CU, addition of a circuit, work within the zones of a bathroom.

However, when you say the landlord installed his own pre-pay meter, is this in addition to (and downstream of) the supplier's meter ? It would be illegal for him to interfere with the existing meter.
There are a load of regulations that come into play when a private meter is installed, so unless he's signed up with one of the outfits that manage this sort of thing, it's highly likely that he's breaking some regulation or other relating to the private metering.

I haven't seen the installation myself but I can only assume its downstream of the energy suppliers own meter. I have researched the type of meter that he has installed and it requires him to pay a subscription for the service provided by the manufacturer as it is an electronic system by way of a sim card and utilises an Internet based service to send the money paid onto the meter to his bank account. I'm stunned that someone unregistered and not necessarily possessing the correct skills or knowledge can effectively intercept a single phase supply to fit a meter in that way, disregarding the fact that it was a replacement. Surely this contravenes safety standards for electricity supply in a rented property not to mention the effect on any buildings insurance should damage or injury occur as a direct result of his work?

 

[Mark42]

None of this matters unless the installation is in some way non-compliant or dangerous, and so far no evidence has been presented that it is.

We need a photo please.

Out of interest, why has the landlord suddenly decided to fit a prepayment meter anyway?

 

[RobJ2778]

None of this matters unless the installation is in some way non-compliant or dangerous, and so far no evidence has been presented that it is.

We need a photo please.

Out of interest, why has the landlord suddenly decided to fit a prepayment meter anyway?

I'm not able to get a photo of the installation currently but will post one when possible. The original meter was a coin operated one which he replaced with a digital one which is topped up via the Internet.

 

[telectrix]

probably got fed up of calling round every fortnight for a bag full of shillings.

 

[Simon47]

I have seen a situation where a PPM has been provided on the suppliers side, and a coin meter in the flat too fitted by the LL, both meters were being fed by the tenant, IMO morally wrong.

Ouch. Without going and doing research to find out what's changed since I was at uni and keen to minimise what I paid the college for lecky, I suspect illegal as well. Certainly back then there was actually a regulated resale price for situations like this - setting a maximum rate chargeable on a landlord's sub meter.

I have researched the type of meter that he has installed and it requires him to pay a subscription for the service provided by the manufacturer as it is an electronic system by way of a sim card and utilises an Internet based service to send the money paid onto the meter to his bank account.

I've seen adverts for such systems, a lot to be said for it compared to keeping a bag full of coins to hand.

I'm stunned that someone unregistered and not necessarily possessing the correct skills or knowledge can effectively intercept a single phase supply to fit a meter in that way, disregarding the fact that it was a replacement. Surely this contravenes safety standards for electricity supply in a rented property not to mention the effect on any buildings insurance should damage or injury occur as a direct result of his work?

There is no requirement to be registered and never has been. While you could say he doesn't necessarily have the skills, he doesn't necessarily not have them - for all we know he may be quite competent. I'm a landlord, I do electrical works as a bit of a hobby business (complete with PL/PI insurance) - so you can't assume that the landlord does not have any skills in that area.
Also, if it's a replacement then that makes things significantly different. ADDING a meter does mean altering the wiring, and to do it properly means having the knowledge/skills to select appropriate materials and use them correctly. REPLACING an existing meter will be little more than undoing the clamp screws on four terminals, lifting the old meter off, slipping the terminals of the new meter onto the same four wires, and tightening the screws - and from what I've observed of meters, it's quite likely that the terminals are in the very same places on the new meter as they were on the old one.
Of course, if the original meter was "poorly fitted", then it's entirely possible that the new meter has inherited the same issues.

When you are able to get some, post photos here and we call all weigh in with our opinions ?

 

[Mark42]

... The original meter was a coin operated one which he replaced with a digital one which is topped up via the Internet.

That sounds an entirely sensible thing to do, and is perfectly acceptable. (So long as it's not being used to apply a rip-off tariff).

As Simon47 says above, the straight replacement of an electrical fitting needs no 'registration' or 'training' to do; legislation requires only that such work be done competently.

The landlord does own the gaff: if he wants to (competently) dick around with the electrics, or paint the walls sky blue pink, it's up to him!

 

[Simon47]

The landlord does own the gaff: if he wants to (competently) dick around with the electrics, or paint the walls sky blue pink, it's up to him!

But only between tenancies. While the property is let, the landlord actually has very few rights - the right to "quiet enjoyment" has been let to the tenant for the duration of the tenancy.
Just making things clear as a lot of people don't realise that.

 

[littlespark]

I suppose it’s fine if the LL is competent and can supply certificates to show this.

The words “dick around with the electrics” doesn’t give me much confidence however


Makes you wonder what else the LL might have done.....

Ran a spur off the socket there.... does this socket here and the one behind in the other room.... “spur off a spur” you say? Never heard of it. They work, don’t they?

I’ve replaced the gas hob as well.... just did it myself. Them Gas Safe blokes charge a fortune.

oh, and I took that wall down between the kitchen and lounge. It was brick, but I don’t think it was load bearing. Maybe... maybe not.

 

[richy3333]

If the landlord is charging more on his own meter than he pays I think he has to register as an energy provider etc. Otherwise he is breaking the law.