Live cable taken straight off busbar..Reg no. required.

[dtec dave]

Evening...Can anyone tell me which reg this breaks??

It feeds a switched fuse.

 

[streamer]

What do you think is wrong with it?

 

[Andy78]

Depends how far away the switch fuse is. Which reg do you think it breaks ?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Where is it going and how long is it?
Have a look at the regulations on omission of protection for overload and position of devices for protection against fault current.

 

[dtec dave]

The next part of my question should have been 'if any regs at all'.

It just doesn't seem right, those nuts/bolts are to fix the busbars in place, not for additional cables to fix to.

 

[dtec dave]

It's not the fact that it is feeding a switched fuse, that is right next to the db, it's the fact that a cable has been crimped on to a busbar that bothers me, so asked for clarification.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

There are regs, have a look at the regulation I mentioned in post #4 and see what you think.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I cant think of any regulation that prevents lugging a cable to a pre-drilled bolt on a busbar.

 

[dtec dave]

Ok..that's the answer I was looking for then!!! Cheers

 

[ipf]

I cant think of any regulation that prevents lugging a cable to a pre-drilled bolt on a busbar.

How about the cover missing off the busbars? Note the screw holes.

 

[timbobelfast]

Evening...Can anyone tell me which reg this breaks??

It feeds a switched fuse.

View attachment 39039

Is it over 3 meters? Lol

 

[dtec dave]

How about the cover missing off the busbars? Note the screw holes.

I didn't have my pinhole camera with me that day to take a picture with the cover on, so had to take the cover off for the picture! It was only off for seconds..promise.

 

[westward10]

That is a proper lash up and the question you must ask, is this a suitable means of connection as per manufacturers recommendations.

 

[ipf]

I didn't have my pinhole camera with me that day to take a picture with the cover on, so had to take the cover off for the picture! It was only off for seconds..promise.

So, has the cover been adapted/altered to accommodate the extra cable? I wouldn't have thought it was manufactured to.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

That nut hasn't been designed for a cable termination . It breaks the regulation referring to manufactures instructions IMO.

 

[westward10]

See this all the time, how can I get another supply, I know lash it off that boards busbar. Legends in their own tiny minds.

 

[Andy-1960]

Looks like the lug is on top of the Bakelite holding the bus-bar in place which is also cracked.
Also why is it a red cable off the blue phase?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I still cant think of a regulation it contravenes. Nor can I see any issues that may result from it being done like that. may not be the preferred method of connection but that does not mean it is against regulations.

 

[Andy78]

Would I do that ? No. But......
Is the connection mechanically sound ? Is the connection electrically sound ? Is the connection compliant with the regs ?
I would think a yes to all three based on the information provided.

 

[Darkwood]

I'm swaying with the OP's concerns here, the regulations are there to give you guidance and will not always detail specific scenario's but that does not mean it is then ok by default.
Looking at similar set-ups should give us an idea here whether this is ok and considering say a busbar chamber where you should not double up cables on busbar clamps as is normally stated within manufacturers guidance as they should each serve only one cable. Here we have a similar set-up when the bolt originally serves a purpose of clamping the busbars together and is not so designed to allow you to tap off although it has been utilised for this purpose, if it shows any signs of damage or overheating then I would bring it up as a matter for correction, if however it a sound connection and the busbar covers can be fitted giving the full protection level they did before then probably only worthy of a noting down. (I assume these busbars still have their covers).

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I'm not sure these boards even had a cover over those bars, they are on the load side of the isolator and a lot of boards of that vintage didn't cover the bars on the load side. I'd agree with checking carefully for any thermal or mechanical damage caused by the termination....but otherwise, don't think I'd be overly concerned if I came across it on an EICR.

 

[ipf]

I'm not sure these boards even had a cover over those bars, they are on the load side of the isolator and a lot of boards of that vintage didn't cover the bars on the load side. I'd agree with checking carefully for any thermal or mechanical damage caused by the termination....but otherwise, don't think I'd be overly concerned if I came across it on an EICR.

See#12.....and the fixing holes

 

[westward10]

No that board never had busbar covers and how anyone can look for excuses to find that acceptable is beyond me.

 

[Andy78]

No that board never had busbar covers and how anyone can look for excuses to find that acceptable is beyond me.

There's a difference between finding something acceptable to do and finding an existing bodge dangerous enough to recommend immediate disconnection.

 

[dtec dave]

Is it over 3 meters? Lol

There is a cover for the busbars, it was just loosely placed over as the offending cable prevents it being screwed down. I would have to notch out the cover to fix it down.

 

[westward10]

There's a difference between finding something acceptable to do and finding an existing bodge dangerous enough to recommend immediate disconnection.

I agree but I would not like to make a judgement on a non recommended ad hoc connection that it does not pose a danger as you have nothing to gauge it against. It is difficult to see but the only way that lug can be fitting flat to the busbar is if it has broken the plastic busbar support which it looks like it has.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

If this was a domestic board and the connection was on the busbar you would all code it on an EICR .

 

[westward10]

I will Code it no matter where it is.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

My concern would be whether the bolt passes through the Bakelite.
If it does, then it is there to hold the bar in place, not for connecting cables.
It would be better to drill a hole elsewhere on the bar to connect.
Using single phase colours is correct.

 

[westward10]

Drill a hole elsewhere on the busbar !!

 

[westward10]

Drill a hole elsewhere on the busbar !!
But yes that is a busbar support with the bolt captive in the bakelite so you could never tighten it too much.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Drill a hole elsewhere on the busbar !!
But yes that is a busbar support with the bolt captive in the bakelite so you could never tighten it too much.

That’s ok then.
Just need to cut a hole in the cover for the cable.

 

[ipf]

No that board never had busbar covers QUOTE]




Mystic Meg?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I will Code it no matter where it is.

Hopefully there isn't an MCB with more than one cable connected as well or you'll have the place evacuated

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I agree but I would not like to make a judgement on a non recommended ad hoc connection that it does not pose a danger as you have nothing to gauge it against. It is difficult to see but the only way that lug can be fitting flat to the busbar is if it has broken the plastic busbar support which it looks like it has.

You could gauge it by the fact that it has almost certainly been there for a considerable time, (red cable), and seems not to have spontaneously combusted yet.

 

[Wilko]

If the bolt just screws into the bakelite I'm not sure you could reliably torque it. So I'm back with the thought that it's a locating bolt, not a termination point so it will not be designed for this use.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

If you expand the photo, you can see that the nut and bolt is connecting two lengths of busbar.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

If this was a domestic board and the connection was on the busbar you would all code it on an EICR .

Would you care to quote the regulation you are basing that on?

 

[Wilko]

If you expand the photo, you can see that the nut and bolt is connecting two lengths of busbar.

Oops - missed that

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Yeah, I did at first.

 

[paul291277]

I wouldn't do it but can we just call it unorthadox?

 

[westward10]

I wouldn't do it but can we just call it unorthadox?

I would call in something else.

 

[ipf]

I would call in something else.

I wonder if he would call this the same?
Anybody got a Reg no.....and I mean for the live loop off.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

Would you care to quote the regulation you are basing that on?

134.1.1
134.1.4

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Debatable

 

[jackhammerJIM]

If one were to send that photo to wylex technical and ask if this was an appropriate connection what do you think would be their response ?

 

[DPG]

I think Jim has hit the nail on the head there.