Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permission

[Gavin A]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

I'd settle for 14 days tbh

 

[LightGEN]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

I'd settle for 14 days tbh

I've taken the 'start low and negotiate up' approach, but I'd settle for them dropping the idea altogether.

 

[Nextgen]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

Hello Gavin
We have installed 2 systems on to adjoining semi detached properties and one further down the same road (about 60 metres away), all three are sub 16a. Do I understand correctly that under this proposal, if there is a grid problem that the DNO could order the disconnection of one or all systems.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

definitely under this proposal.

If you installed them all as part of the same project, you'd have needed permission even under the current rules as they're that close to each other, but this would now apply to a much wider area, and to mean you need to ask permission for any new systems in advance if you've previously installed a system in that geographic area.

consultation closes on Friday btw, please get responses in.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

times up folks.

If this comes in and you've not responded and knew about it, then you're partly responsible in my eyes.

Possibly a little harsh, but I'm currently well ****ed off with BPVA for saying they'd alert their members to this, but then not doing so. It's a quitting issue for me as well with regard to BPVA, final straw and all that.

 

[LightGEN]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

This morning I received an email back from Ofgem, which in short states "We have noted your concern about the way that the Stage 2 application process could work under the proposed G83/2. We have discussed this with the DNOs and have agreed a revised approach that addresses these concerns." Parties who responded to the consultation are being invited to partake in a conference call where this 'revised approach' will be discussed.

 

[Energetic]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

Got one also, slightly concerned about the length of the list of email adresses on the top but at lease they've taken notice. Well done Gav and everyone who responded.

 

[Ian-LS]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

I even tweeted solar power portal, solar trade association and BPVA numerous times.

So what was it 6 people that responded?

 

[Energetic]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

theres 8 on mine but might not be everyone...

 

[Ian-LS]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

A bit concerning that it was on this forum and navitron and also 500 people viewed our blog about this issue, and only 9 people responded.

This is something the trade associations should have picked up on and didn't even when told that this would be a major issue if the plans were to be implemented. If BPVA didnt even respond to the consultation then that is frankly shocking, I hope they did respond though.

 

[SolarRoofSols]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

I got the email as well - it is shocking if no one else has responded...no doubt they will be the folks complaining to high heaven if the change does go through!

We are not members of BPVA and to be honest we won't be if they are not even alerting their members to silly changes like this which will have an impact on completing installations when there are fit cut deadlines to meet! Grrrrr

 

[Worcester]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

They might be being selective or else there may be a spam issue, - we responded haven't got an email response (yet) others may not know that a response has been sent out becasue of that.

 

[Energetic]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

Close Geographic Region
A close geographic region[1] is one that meets at least one of the following criteria;

1) The postcodes of any of the premises where a SSEG installation is planned by the same organisation are the same when the last two letters are ignored…ieAB1 2xx where xx could be any pair of letters or where x could be any letter.

2) The premises where a SSEG installation is planned by the same organisation are within 500m of each other.
[1] This represents an area typically served by a single low voltage feeder circuit fed from a single distribution transformer.


This is from yesterdays email, effectively the concerning bits have not been changed. There is a 28 day limit though...

In our local postcode we have 19 installs within their definition of a Close Geographic Region We know that ther are on at least 5 different substations possibly many more, We are a very locally focussed company in a small town. There are many more installs by other installers in the same postcode.

 

[TedM]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

I'm not sure what they mean by "a single distribution transformer."

Here, in a very rural area, we have all power coming from individual 11kV overhead lines with a transformer almost for each house. I'm guessing that the "distribution transformer" means that feeding the 11kV line, not the 11kV/240V ones.

Our postcodes also cover large areas - the one for our house covers a road 1.5 miles long. There are probably 100 11kV/240V transformers within a single postcode and possibly thousands within the AB1 2xx equivalent area.

 

[Ian-LS]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

I'm not sure what they mean by "a single distribution transformer."

Here, in a very rural area, we have all power coming from individual 11kV overhead lines with a transformer almost for each house. I'm guessing that the "distribution transformer" means that feeding the 11kV line, not the 11kV/240V ones.

Our postcodes also cover large areas - the one for our house covers a road 1.5 miles long. There are probably 100 11kV/240V transformers within a single postcode and possibly thousands within the AB1 2xx equivalent area.

Those on this conference call, please argue our corner in a calm manner. We understand what they are trying to do by not having single transfomrers and substations overloaded but these proposals will not acheive this and are unworkable as they currently stand.

Everyone I have spoken to about this issue has been firmly behind our and other installers stance

 

[Vrai]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

Thanks for the info.

 

[Gavin A]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

Some brief feedback on the teleconference yesterday...

Generally constructive, with Ofgem open to our concerns, and pretty much all the installers saying the same things as far as I could tell.

Key points raised were

1 - Timescales for DNO's turning around stage 2 applications should be reduced from their current 45 day maximum, otherwise apart from anything else, it will result in a situation where installers are better off just waiting 28 days and doing it anyway.

2 - Geographic area definition is still far too wide, and the guidance note about it referring to an area served by 1 substation currently just confuses the situation and leaves the entire thing open to interpretation by the DNO / OFgem at a later date that could result in a customers installation being cut off. Ofgem were saying that the new guidance note was intended to clarify the situation so that it would only apply to systems that are actually installed on the same transformer - in which case this would be much much better as it would mean that we as installers could use our own judgement - eg if there's a transformer in the field then there's not point worrying about an installation carried out 20 miles away that just happened to be in the same postcode district.

3 - Suggestions made about alternative lower limits of systems size eg 2.2kW below which there would never be a need to prenotify the DNO - unlikely to make it into the current version, but could be looked at in future.

4 - Suggestions made about a database being made available to installers showing areas where there were known problems already, so installers could avoid them, and potentially this could be a better solution than the current proposal - OFgem were interested in spreading the idea as a voluntary best practice idea, but it's not going to replace the current proposals.

5 - Suggestions made about investigating / adopting the German solution of inverters that reduce their output to limit localised voltage spikes or overall high frequency issues, instead of the inverters being either 100% on, or 100% off. As virtually all inverters have this capability built in anyway it should be relatively simple to adopt this approach, which would then fully solve most of the concerns the DNOs have around localised over voltage issues. Ofgem seemed interested in this, but it's too late for it to make it into G83/2.

G83/2 is scheduled for publication at the end of this month, so it seems unlikely that anything other than minor tweaks are going to happen between now and then.

 

[Noddy67]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

"This procedure (single premises connection procedure) will not apply where an Installer plans or has already installed other SSEGs in..


isn't it only for the 28 days previoius and 28 forward... so you could do 3 installs in 57 days. It's not 'ever' from my reading.




Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/p...needing-advance-permission.html#ixzz29rtSYeUu

 

[Gavin A]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

"This procedure (single premises connection procedure) will not apply where an Installer plans or has already installed other SSEGs in..


isn't it only for the 28 days previoius and 28 forward... so you could do 3 installs in 57 days. It's not 'ever' from my reading.

that's what it has now been changed to AFTER the intervention of around 8 companies, mostly those involved on this thread.

It's far from perfect still, but is a hell of a lot better than the situation would otherwise have been.

 

[Noddy67]

Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

apols - i was reading this out of order...