Discuss Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permission in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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A new draft version of the G83/2 regulations has been released for consultation including major changes to the rules about when advance permission is needed for connecting a solar PV system to the grid. These changes have massive implications for the industry as a whole, but particularly for local installation companies with a large local customer base.

The key changes are:-

Definition of 'Close Geographic Region'

Any installations of more than 1 solar PV system by the same installer that fall within either of these categories would require advance permission to be connected, using a revised Appendix 2 multiple installations application form.
1) The postcodes of any of the premises where a SSEG installation is planned by the same organisation are the same when the last two letters are ignored…ie AB1 2xx where xx could be any pair of letters or where x could be any letter.

2) The premises where a SSEG installation is planned by the same organisation are within 500m of each other.

These rules wouldn't only apply to new installations, but also to all solar PV system that have ever been installed in that 'close geographic region' by the same installer.

This procedure (single premises connection procedure) will not apply where an Installer plans or has already installed other SSEGs in
a Close Geographic Region; in this case the procedure in 5.1.2 shall be followed.
Failure to comply with this requirement may lead to the disconnection of the Customers Installation under ESQCR (26) or failure of the SSEG to operate as intended.
So any installer who carried out an installation within the same postcode area AB1 2XX postcode area or within 500m as another installation they'd carried out, and didn't ask for permission in advance would risk the DNO cutting installation off at any time in the future if any problems did arise with the local grid in that area.

This is a massive change for the industry, that will particularly hit the sort of quality local installers that use this forum who will have most of their work in postcode districts that they've already installed systems in, and will therefore need advance permission to connect them, whereas new start ups, or none local companies could install the same system without needing any advance permission.

Full details and analysis on the Leeds Solar blog please take a few minutes to read this and think about the potential consequences to your business, then email Ofgem to let them know what you think of these proposals before 28th September 2012 [email protected]
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

sorry, the formatting got a bit messed up for some reason.
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

Agreed, Gavin.

Some of the proposals seem bizarre and quite arbitrary. How do you judge 500m? As the crow flies or by road?

The time delay would be a major headache. A few weeks ago we quoted for 240w panels. Customer took a week or two before accepting. Went back to supplier and they were now selling 245w panels which we bought and fitted. This would be a pain if DNO pre-notification was for 240w.

I guess the next stage will be for the DNO to start charging for applications/notifications.
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

my initial email to ofgem, just to get the ball rolling...

Hi Gareth,

I've just read through the latest draft G83/2 proposals, and realised that there are some huge changes to the process for determining whether a sub 16amp system should be required to obtain advance permission to connect hidden away in this document.

I have to ask you to withdraw these proposals, and have an urgent rethink on them, as they will be completely unworkable, and cause companies such as ours to be operating at a major disadvantage in our own local areas compared to other companies who've not got any previous installations in our popular postcode districts.

I'm also certain that this measure will cause the entire G59 and G83 application process to grind to a halt under the volume of new applications it will create. These systems are already close to collapse in many areas, with applications across Northern PowerGrid taking up to 65 working days to be processed, and if we have to wait 45 or 65 working days for permission to carry out a basic sub 16amp installation this will likely mean we'll not be able to promise to carry out those installations before the next quarterly FIT cuts happen.

Put simply, this measure as proposed will put most reputable local solar installers out of business overnight, with only rogue traders, and companies that operate outside of specific geographic areas left... or we'll have to stop doing local work, and focus on working in areas we've not previously worked in, which would be a ridiculous policy result.

I must remind you of Ofgems stated purpose of
"eliminating unnecessary regulatory and market barriers to the economic deployment of distributed energy."

How does this policy possibly meet that aim?

Please withdraw this idea, and go back to the drawing board with it. I'd be happy to work with you and others in the industry to draw up a workable solution to achieve your presumed goal of stopping local grid connections from being overloaded with PV installations, but this policy will be an absolute disaster if you go ahead with it.

I've put further analysis of this issue on our blog at this link, if you want to see more details about our analysis and objections Major changes to G83 rules for properties needing advance permission to connect - Leeds Solar | Solar installers blog and renewable energy industry news

 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

Thanks for the info, Gavin, and great email too. I share your concerns with this.

I can imagine the situation now: You get a phone call to go and see a customer, they wish to offer you the work and the question comes up: "Will you fit me in before the deadline?". Because of this proposal, the answer will very likely be "No". But the other more expensive firm will have no such barriers as they are a nationwide firm. This is an utterly ridiculous burden to place on us - unless, perhaps, the DNO start giving answers within 3 working days.
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

The fact that a pre approval doesn’t need to be submitted by a company that has not installed in the area is totally nonsensical. If it is accepted retrospectively via another installer then what does it matter who has done the installation?
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

Yet another example of the stumbling blocks put in the way of SME installers. The only way that I can see this would be viable on a domestic level is if they allowed the FIT rate to be back dated to the date of the DNO application
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

does not make sense !!! why would it matter if you have installed their before or not?

thanks for the heads up
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

Below is a cut and paste from an email, might be useful for people who want to raise the above points to ofgem.

Ofgem hosted a series of regional forum events in 2011 focusing on the issues facing Distributed Generation customers when connecting to the network. A number of measures have been put in place over the past year as a result of the discussion and we are holding follow-up events on the following dates:


  • London 22 October 2012
  • Glasgow 26 October 2012
  • Cardiff 30 October 2012

In advance of the events, we have published an open letter on our website, inviting feedback from the DG community on the progress made to date in improving the experience of getting connected.

This is the open letter link

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Networks/ElecDist/Policy/DistGen/Documents1/Open_letter_DG_Forum_170812.pdf

Tom
 

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