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Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

does not make sense !!! why would it matter if you have installed their before or not?

thanks for the heads up

it can make a big difference to the DNO network if you have multiple sseg on one leg of a substatiion as it can cause reverse current flow and voltage rise at the point of common connection to other connected customers. If this was to happen on multiple legs on one substation then it can cause reverse current flow on the 11kv network as well.
This why it is important for the DNO to receive Pre applications for sseg in one area.
I guess from your response you only fit and do not design ?
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

it can make a big difference to the DNO network if you have multiple sseg on one leg of a substatiion as it can cause reverse current flow and voltage rise at the point of common connection to other connected customers. If this was to happen on multiple legs on one substation then it can cause reverse current flow on the 11kv network as well.
This why it is important for the DNO to receive Pre applications for sseg in one area.
I guess from your response you only fit and do not design ?

I think he was referring to the fact that the proposals mean that Company X who has installed a few PV systems in the postcode LS16 5** (as we have) has to get permission to install another PV system in this area whereas Company Y who has not installed a PV system in that area will be able to connect a PV system without needing permission from the DNO. This is completely nonsensicial and is not a level playing field.

I can see why they dont want to overload one substation but to propose a LS16 5** limit is frankly unworkable
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

I think he was referring to the fact that the proposals mean that Company X who has installed a few PV systems in the postcode LS16 5** (as we have) has to get permission to install another PV system in this area whereas Company Y who has not installed a PV system in that area will be able to connect a PV system without needing permission from the DNO. This is completely nonsensicial and is not a level playing field.

I can see why they dont want to overload one substation but to propose a LS16 5** limit is frankly


He asked "why would it matter if you have installed their before or not ?" no mention of anyone else being able to or not I just answered a question.

The DNO keep records of sseg installed and can check how much is installed in a given area. If a company chose to send in separate commissioning confirmations within a short space of time for the same area this would be classed as multiple sseg even though the company had not submitted them at the same time and the DNO would be within their rights to request a disconnection if thes systems were causing a problem on their network. The chances of multiple companies fitting individual sseg on one ss feeder would be pretty slim.
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

I think he was referring to the fact that the proposals mean that Company X who has installed a few PV systems in the postcode LS16 5** (as we have) has to get permission to install another PV system in this area whereas Company Y who has not installed a PV system in that area will be able to connect a PV system without needing permission from the DNO. This is completely nonsensicial and is not a level playing field.

I can see why they dont want to overload one substation but to propose a LS16 5** limit is frankly


He asked "why would it matter if you have installed their before or not ?" no mention of anyone else being able to or not I just answered a question.

The DNO keep records of sseg installed and can check how much is installed in a given area. If a company chose to send in separate commissioning confirmations within a short space of time for the same area this would be classed as multiple sseg even though the company had not submitted them at the same time and the DNO would be within their rights to request a disconnection if thes systems were causing a problem on their network. The chances of multiple companies fitting individual sseg on one ss feeder would be pretty slim.

Define a short space of time? This is a very grey area, at the moment mutilple SSEG comes into affect when installing more than one <16 Amp per phase install on the same street or postcode. So if we installed a system in January 2012 on one street then 9 months later came back and installed a system 200 yards down the road, We should technically be gaining permission but another company who didnt install the first PV system wouldnt need permission as far as I understand.

And on your last point, its not one SS feeder though the consulation is proposing we would need permission based on LS16 5** (or within 500 metres) where there must be dozens of substations. I would agree the chances of multiple companies installing into one substation are slim but this is not what the consulation is suggesting will happen but the fact such a obvious loophole for large national companies is just taking the micky a bit
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

I wanted to bump this up to the top again to encourage people to log a response to Ofgem clarifying how bad clause 5.1.2 could be.

It will mean that for those of us relying on local marketing/word of mouth whereby you could pick up a couple of jobs on the same street, you will have to pre apply for G83 connection for the 2nd job (an any other job within 500m for that matter), but a competitor can go ahead and do a post notification.

Not so bad in a slow market but what happens a week before the next FIT cut and you have a few houses within 500m of each other wanting a quick install? Can yo afford to lose the job to someone else, maybe an out of town competitor?

If they are going to implement it then it should be one rule for all!
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

Ofgem asked me to clarify what the exact changes were that I was objecting to, so I thought I may as well add my response to this thread for reference.

If you've not already responded, please take a few minutes to email Ofgem either with your own objections to this, or merely to support the position I've outlined to them - just reference Leeds Solar, and quote my email below, and state your support for this position if you've not got the time to write your own email.

Contrary to my original thoughts on this, I've now checked and realised that this proposal was in the version that was consulted on in February, but this consultation was released about 2-3 days before the announcement of the 3rd March FIT cut, so I assume that most installers were too rushed off our feet to stop and read through this consultation in enough detail to pick up on this change (the FIT consultation was also in progress at the same time). This makes it far more likely that this change will go ahead unless they now get deluged with objections to it, so please get on it and object before we're all landed with a piece of beurocratic nonsense that's even worse than the EPC requirements.


[FONT=&quot] the changes concerned relate to the changes to the situations where prior application to connect a sub 16amp per phase system is required, and are 2 fold:

referencing
G83/1 5.1.2
G83/2 definitions, close geographic region, & 5.1.1

1 - Change to the definition of close geographic region

G83/1 gives no definition of 'close geographic region', but gives 2 examples of 'in the same road / street' or as part of a new housing development.

G83/2 defines 'close geographic region' as being a either the postcode area excluding the last 2 digits, so LS16 5XX, or within 500m of the installation.

This is a massive change to the area affected, taking it from basically involving the immediate neighbours within sight of the installation on the same street, or within the same development, to covering an area of up to several thousand houses and in some cases up to 25 miles in length.

FYI we're currently in the middle of a stage 2 application with Northern PowerGrid for around 250 properties in Goole, and they've been happy for us to submit the applications in postcode districts or for the same street, and ignore any that were the only installation in that postcode or street, even though they're virtually all in the same AB1 1XX postcode area.

The current situation is a reasonable approach to determining if multiple installations in a close area are likely to have an impact on the same phase of a local transformer or not. The revised versions have no such logical justification, as they will almost always cover dozens of transformers, which as I understand it, operate independently, so there's hardly any impact on one transformer from having sub 16amp SSEGs installed on other local transformers.


2 - Changes to the frame of reference for projects from 'planned projects' in G83/1 to 'plans to orhas already installed other SSEGs' in G83/2

Changing from a situation where advance permission is only required for planned projects involving multiple installations to a situation where any project previously installed by an installation company will mean that all future installations in a wide geographic area around that existing installation is a huge change.

It is a change that will lead to experienced local installation companies being at a serious disadvantage in their own local area, as they will inevitably already have installed SSEG's in many of their local LS16 5XX postcode districts, and will therefore have to apply for advance permission to connect for any proposed installations in their local area that happen to be within that same postcode district.

A new installer, or installer from outside the area wouldn't need to request advance permission at all, and could simply install the exact same system under G83/2 stage 1 immediately and just notify the DNO within 28 days afterwards.

I can only assume that this wording slipped in without anyone really considering its impact. If you do leave it in place though I can't see that many companies will have much option other than to ignore this rule or go out of business, so I'd hope you'd not force otherwise compliant companies into such a position. I'm pretty sure this measure would be illegal as it would unfairly discriminate between one company and another, so would expect it to be unenforceable anyway. Effectively then, all it would do would be to grant the DNOs an excuse to cut such installations off at their discretion, which is surely not a situation the regulator should be creating.

We'd be happy to participate in discussions to find a more workable method of determining when advance permission should be required.[/FONT]
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

I think this is pretty important to a lot of installers so I'll make it a sticky for now
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

I have emailed gareth to support your argument. We are ** *** **** **** *** ***** if this is applied retrospectively.
 
Re: Massive changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permissio

I've mailed Gareth my own missive. Besides the obvious observations relating to local businesses beind disadvantaged, I've suggested that, should this change be forced through, there be a requirement for on-line systems through which to make requests and a requirement for a three day turn-around.
 

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