Moved a BT master socket

[Gavin John Hyde]

Had a call this morning, customer come back from visiting family and during the recent up and down weather it appears rain has got in and damaged the BT master socket. they had no phone/broadband I moved it from one corner to underneath the built in shelving in lounge. outside the wall where the BT cable comes in is mud, debris plants etc.. the water had pooled in the area and found a way in as the hole is very low down and not sealed. the floor inside is below ground level by around a foot inside.
Called me as the open reach engineer was going off on one telling them they will have to pay for the call out as quote 'somebody has moved this and its not allowed, it is open reach property' you know the usual script they stick too.
I actually moved it to the other side of room around 18 months ago and have now moved it back owing to redecorating.
they said nobody has touched it (its in exactly the place originally fitted and same plastic fittings)... in any case its the cable and hole openreach/bt drilled that allowed water to get in!
They are refusing to pay the call out charge that the engineer is trying to bill them, they have told the person on the phone that if they issue a bill then they will issue small claims proceedings for the water damage caused by BT drilling a hole in a stupid place and allowing water to enter the property damaging the plaster and wall etc.. apparently somebody will call them back on Monday to discuss it.

Anybody else had issues with the openreach lot being a pain in the backside!?

I have moved loads of bt points and dont see what the problem is myself... it wasnt my handywork that caused the issue but the inability of a bloke to drill a hole and seal it!

 

[westward10]

It is Openreach property you have no right to move it.

 

[Wilko]

But we love you anyway

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

It is Openreach property you have no right to move it.

yes technically openreach property but at the same time i bet im not the only one on here to have ever moved one. its the phone equivalent of the seal fairy and fuses

 

[westward10]

Would you move a gas meter or electicical service head.

 

[pirate]

I certainly wouldn't move a gas meter or service head as that requires skills I don't possess...but a BT master socket? Done dozens of them...no-one's going to die, and the wiring isn't exactly difficult. The last time the engineer came to fix my broadband I had to take the socket off the wall, and the back box, fish out the master socket from the cavity and reterminate everything before he arrived (the master was a horrid, yellowed box and Mrs Pirate wanted it hidden and a polished brass box installed instead). The chap took one look at the old box and went to his van and fitted a brand new one...and the broadband was improved too.

 

[Pete999]

Would you move a gas meter or electicical service head.

Not really but a BT master socket ain't going to be that dramatic

 

[westward10]

Not really but a BT master socket ain't going to be that dramatic

I agree Pete but the scenario is the same it is someone else's property and because it is low risk people feel it is okay to do it, it is not.

 

[Octopus]

I never tamper with the incoming master socket ......... and if the customer wants it moved ........... they arrange it with BT.

 

[westward10]

I certainly wouldn't move a gas meter or service head as that requires skills I don't possess...but a BT master socket? Done dozens of them...no-one's going to die, and the wiring isn't exactly difficult. The last time the engineer came to fix my broadband I had to take the socket off the wall, and the back box, fish out the master socket from the cavity and reterminate everything before he arrived (the master was a horrid, yellowed box and Mrs Pirate wanted it hidden and a polished brass box installed instead). The chap took one look at the old box and went to his van and fitted a brand new one...and the broadband was improved too.

It has nothing to do with having the skills or the difficulty of moving it, it ain't yours to move.

 

[telectrix]

they won't like me then. original master was in front hall, 4 extension sockets had been added over the years. router is in conservatory round back. couple of years ago, had a fault. by dissing all the slave sockets, problem disappeared. as we have 4 cordless phones, i decided to move master to by router (as EE says it's best to have the router in the master). 30m of external black cat 5, over garage roof, from BT connection box up top of wall straight off the overhead line, into master in conservatory. end of problems. anyone complains i''l point them to the last time they repaired a neighbour's connection and failed to re-insert the fuse for next door's line.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Ive moved bundles.

 

[suffolkspark]

This actually came up on a commercial property i am currently working on.... I said i wouldnt touch them (they have 3 incoming lines)

BT wanted £150 per line + vat despite them all running down 1 multicore cable and all master sockets next to each other on the wall...

Customer had a google and there are companies advertising bt master socket relocation as a service??? It was done in an hour...

 

[Deleted account]

This actually came up on a commercial property i am currently working on.... I said i wouldnt touch them (they have 3 incoming lines)

BT wanted £150 per line + vat despite them all running down 1 multicore cable and all master sockets next to each other on the wall...

Customer had a google and there are companies advertising bt master socket relocation as a service??? It was done in an hour...

Your right thereby are wrong. Simple.

 

[Octopus]

This actually came up on a commercial property i am currently working on.... I said i wouldnt touch them (they have 3 incoming lines)

BT wanted £150 per line + vat despite them all running down 1 multicore cable and all master sockets next to each other on the wall...

Customer had a google and there are companies advertising bt master socket relocation as a service??? It was done in an hour...

That’s fine ... you aren’t involved .... so if anything goes wrong it’s down to the customer .....

 

[buzzlightyear]

now this how it goes ,did a job for a customer the master in back room ,added a new socket in the front room ,customer rang BT I cannot get any thing on the phone in the front room ,BT engineer turn up yes you have a fault in the front room .can you fix it
engineer to customer no ,this what I'm going to do I'm going to disconnect it. the master in the back room belongs to open reach.

 

[buzzlightyear]

now this how it goes ,did a job for a customer master in back room ,added a new socket in the front room ,customer rang BT I cannot get any thing on the phone in the front room ,BT engineer turn up yes you have a fault in the front room .can you fix it
engineer to customer no ,this what I'm going to do I'm going to disconnect it. the master in the back room belongs to open reach.

 

[pirate]

"It has nothing to do with having the skills or the difficulty of moving it, it ain't yours to move."
It ain't mine...agreed.
Can I move it?
Yes, I can.
Rent your TV? Not yours, but I think you can move it...
Lease your car? Not yours, but useless if you can't move it...
It's down to degree, methinks...
Got a gas meter? Not yours. Can you move it? Nope, it's different, it needs skills, equipment, and there is a risk to life if you make a mess of it...

 

[westward10]

That is a pretty ignorant way of looking at it.

 

[pirate]

You are entitled to your opinion...
I to mine...
I do feel that a BT master socket is in a different and minor league though...
Oh, and I find the use of the word "ignorant" somewhat annoying and falling outwith the forum criteria, but as it matters not to me, I'll just ignore it...
see what I did there?

 

[Dillb]

"It has nothing to do with having the skills or the difficulty of moving it, it ain't yours to move."
It ain't mine...agreed.
Can I move it?
Yes, I can.
Rent your TV? Not yours, but I think you can move it...
Lease your car? Not yours, but useless if you can't move it...
It's down to degree, methinks...
Got a gas meter? Not yours. Can you move it? Nope, it's different, it needs skills, equipment, and there is a risk to life if you make a mess of it...

So knowing that openreach wont allow you alter their install, they basically own that part of your house. So if I wanted to knock down or alter wall which they have installed a cable or phone point on I cant with out their permission?

 

[pirate]

Interesting analogy
Also, as I have a shareholding, that makes the socket partly mine anyway...albeit, alterations to common property normally require consent of all owners...however, a socket, by virtue of its minimal degree of annexation to the property, makes it moveable not heritable...so move it if you want, just don't remove it from the property.

 

[westward10]

You are entitled to your opinion...
I to mine...
I do feel that a BT master socket is in a different and minor league though...
Oh, and I find the use of the word "ignorant" somewhat annoying and falling outwith the forum criteria, but as it matters not to me, I'll just ignore it...
see what I did there?

I chose the word ignorant for its meaning of lacking knowledge or awareness of the situation. People feel the moving of a master socket to be feasible due to its low risk of danger, this risk is totally irrelevant to the fact of interfering with property which is of no concern other than the owner, Openreach.

 

[Dillb]

Why is it I can purchase a master or slave phone socket from a wholesaler then?

 

[westward10]

So knowing that openreach wont allow you alter their install, they basically own that part of your house. So if I wanted to knock down or alter wall which they have installed a cable or phone point on I cant with out their permission?

So you wouldn't consult your gas provider in a similar situation.

 

[westward10]

Why is it I can purchase a master or slave phone socket from a wholesaler then?

I can purchase an electrical service head.

 

[Dillb]

So you wouldn't consult your gas provider in a similar situation.

Of course I would as I dont the first idea about gas regs. As I would also consult a stuctural engineer as i wouldnt know about supporting walls etc.

 

[Dillb]

I can purchase an electrical service head.

So youd be happy to swap one while its still live?

 

[pirate]

It's not the same, clearly. I am aware what ignorant means, and I lack neither knowledge nor awareness....when it comes to a BT socket.
I lack knowledge when it comes to a gas meter, but not awareness, therefore I am not ignorant in that scenario either...I make a judgement.

 

[westward10]

So youd be happy to swap one while its still live?

I wouldn't consider it I am merely stating I could purchase one. People seem to gave a disregard for telecoms services because it is deemed low risk but the fact remains it is not your privilege to move it.

 

[Dillb]

Having worked for many years in shopfitting, the amount of times BT have turned up in the first week of the job when walls havent even been constructed is alot. All they do is fit the outlet/s with a very long length of cable and ask us to route it for them as they wont be re visiting.

 

[westward10]

It's not the same, clearly. I am aware what ignorant means, and I lack neither knowledge nor awareness....when it comes to a BT socket.
I lack knowledge when it comes to a gas meter, but not awareness, therefore I am not ignorant in that scenario either...I make a judgement.

Your judgement being you can alter something you have no right to interfere with.

 

[pirate]

It's not your "privilege" to exceed the speed limit either, or to park in an inappropriate place. No-one is denying your stance, merely defending the alternative stance that is that is not unreasonable to re-site a very low-risk item, notwithstanding legal "ownership".
OK, it's "wrong" to interfere, but life must go on...
I had no "right" to attend my neighbours property last week when they were on holiday to make a gate secure...but I committed no offence that would have resulted in a conviction. I would call on negotiorum gestio in my defence, and the Court would dismiss it de minimis anyway...as I said, it'dsthe "degree", and that is a judgement for the individual. Trust me, unless you cause trouble or damage by moving a BT socket, you areunlikely to face prosecution. On the other hand, if you move the gas meter...well, that's a whole different scenario, in my opinion.
Now, I see my glass is empty...so if you will forgive me, gentlemen and ladies, I will pour my nightcap and retire for the night, wishing you all a good rest and a happy awakening.

 

[pirate]

It's not your "privilege" to exceed the speed limit either, or to park in an inappropriate place. No-one is denying your stance, merely defending the alternative stance that is that is not unreasonable to re-site a very low-risk item, notwithstanding legal "ownership".
OK, it's "wrong" to interfere, but life must go on...
I had no "right" to attend my neighbour's property last week when they were on holiday, to make a gate secure...but I committed no offence that would have resulted in a conviction. I would call on negotiorum gestio in my defence, and the Court would dismiss it de minimis anyway...as I said, it's the "degree", and that is a judgement for the individual. Trust me, unless you cause trouble or damage by moving a BT socket, you are unlikely to face prosecution. On the other hand, if you move the gas meter...well, that's a whole different scenario, in my opinion.
Now, I see my glass is empty...so if you will forgive me, gentlemen and ladies, I will pour my nightcap and retire for the night, wishing you all a good rest and a happy awakening.

 

[buzzlightyear]

a line from telecoms from post to the master box that where it stay move it ,and theirs a fault BT is not oblige to repair it .

 

[Toneyz]

I think it still is a criminal offence to interfere with the public telecommunication network.

 

[elsparko]

how dare you move british telecoms property? im ringing the police

 

[elsparko]

It's not your "privilege" to exceed the speed limit either, or to park in an inappropriate place. No-one is denying your stance, merely defending the alternative stance that is that is not unreasonable to re-site a very low-risk item, notwithstanding legal "ownership".
OK, it's "wrong" to interfere, but life must go on...
I had no "right" to attend my neighbour's property last week when they were on holiday, to make a gate secure...but I committed no offence that would have resulted in a conviction. I would call on negotiorum gestio in my defence, and the Court would dismiss it de minimis anyway...as I said, it's the "degree", and that is a judgement for the individual. Trust me, unless you cause trouble or damage by moving a BT socket, you are unlikely to face prosecution. On the other hand, if you move the gas meter...well, that's a whole different scenario, in my opinion.
Now, I see my glass is empty...so if you will forgive me, gentlemen and ladies, I will pour my nightcap and retire for the night, wishing you all a good rest and a happy awakening.

speeding is a privilege , cant tell you how many warnings ive recieved, only got points when i was really taking the ---- LOL

 

[rsgaz]

To those who have cut a live BT cable when moving a master, did you ring and slit the cable, then cut the wires individually, or just chop the cable with your regular wire cutters/shears, thereby causing a split second short circuit at the exchange?

very low-risk item,

Touch an old ISDN line at -96v DC and then tell me it's very low risk!! Believe me, it's not pleasant!!

 

[telectrix]

sure that 96

is the a.c.voltage to ringbell.

 

[rsgaz]

96 is the a.c.voltage to ringbell.

75v AC, 25Hz is the ringing voltage on a 'normal' line. I picked an ISDN line as an extreme example/scenario because it's always -96v DC.

 

[Squid]

how dare you move british telecoms property? im ringing the police

Grass and anyways you are in Scotland you trouble maker ;o)))))

 

[Squid]

To those who have cut a live BT cable when moving a master, did you ring and slit the cable, then cut the wires individually, or just chop the cable with your regular wire cutters/shears, thereby causing a split second short circuit at the exchange?



Touch an old ISDN line at -96v DC and then tell me it's very low risk!! Believe me, it's not pleasant!!

Not "many" people will have an ISDN line at home and when moving a master socket treat it the same as a live cable, cut very carefully or remove the ends from the socket and tape up until you re krone.

 

[Squid]

Your judgement being you can alter something you have no right to interfere with.

Have you ever been out with a married woman, someone else's yours doesn't count...........

 

[elsparko]

Have you ever been out with a married woman, someone else's yours doesn't count...........

apples and oranges lol, i wouldnt ring up the womans husband/partner afterwards to tell them

 

[elsparko]

Grass and anyways you are in Scotland you trouble maker ;o)))))

i am the judge jury and executioner

 

[Squid]

i am the judge jury and toothless Irn Bru.......

;o))))

 

[elsparko]

;o))))

not for long, ill have a set like jimmy carr

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

bloody heck.. started this thread and its turned into a right contentious issue.... people disagreeing with one and other... Its just a phone socket not the local exchange...

 

[pirate]

I'm going to get one of these...
NTE5 Master Socket - Enhanced Performance - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GPNTE5.html?source=adwords&ad_position=1o1&ad_id=45425533757&placement=&kw=&network=g&matchtype=&ad_type=pla&product_id=GPNTE5&product_partition_id=174051209107&test=finalurl_v2&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIt_vj2_G32wIVxYjVCh2U6QPYEAQYASABEgLuNfD_BwE

and I'm going to move it as much as I like, as it is mine!
(Clearly, I won't be connecting it to the BT incomer as that is their wire)