New circuit to detached shed/garage in garden.

[Charlie_]

Minor works cert Charlie?

Yes.. Is one of the reasons you want to spur off existing so you don’t have to do an EIC on the main installation?

Any records of when the house was last tested?
You have a duty of care as a qualified/competent electrician to take into consideration whether or not the installation you are utilizing is safe and fit for purpose

 

[Pete999]

Pete999 didn't get that

On the contrary I did get it, thanks very much.

 

[David999]

"Any records of when the house was last tested?
You have a duty of care as a qualified/competent electrician to take into consideration whether or not the installation you are utilizing is safe and fit for purpose." Thanks for reminding me Charlie. This is actually more important than my questions. No probably hasn't been done for donkeys years and I will need to run a few tests beforehand. Thanks. And although I thought it might be notifiable due to cable running outdoors I can't find anything about that in Building Regs so guess not notifiable after all.

 

[David999]

found a similar thread on another forum :

"You could do a fused spur (13amp) off the ring, use an 2.5mm SWA to feed an RCD double socket in the shed. You would have to do another fused spur (3 amp)from that socket to feed a light."

"spuring off the socket circuit is allowed but don't forget only 1 socket per spur unless fused.

You would need to use armoured for burrying, and also would need rcd protection and bonding.

Your cheapest option would be to install an RCD spur in the house, come out of this with an armoured into the shed for a couple of sockets with a switched fused spur to switch the lights. This means your maximum load will be 13A."

"The problem you've got is leaving enough capacity in the ring for everything else it serves and not throwing the ring out of balance (it's easier to overload the shorter leg of the ring if a large point load is away from dead-centre (very easy if it's less than one third of the way around)."

 

[magnoliafan89]

Are you registered with a scheme?
I like how you snap at someone stating you know the regs yet in your first post you ask for an experienced electrician (if you knew the regs surely you would be) and that you knew the basics....are you an electrician and surely you shouldnt have taken on such a job if you then come onto a forum asking for someone to help you design a circuit only to not take into consideration what they are saying when they offer you good FREE advice.

 

[David999]

thanks magnoliafan. In all honesty I signed up here because the site was advertised as "the uk's friendliest electrical forum" As it is well known that electricians can sometimes have an attitude I didn't want to be in the firing line. It is odd isn't it that although I am very grateful for the time and advice given that no one gave a direct answer to the question of how they would design the circuit in a garage if taken from a spur. And yet digging around a bit more on other electrical forums found a few posts where almost the exact same question was asked and straight forward answers and solutions were given. I am sure this is mostly down to my not so good communication for which I apologise. I have the C&G BS 7671 But like I said lacking practical experience i.e. nuts and bolts in wiring an outhouse. Also I have just realised that It is talk.electriciansforums.co.uk which is the one that has the sub header "the uk's friendliest electrical forum" thanks for your input.

 

[magnoliafan89]

Well you cant expect people to give you step by step instructions.
Im guessing you're either not an electrician or you may just be starting out as one, because if you honestly believed it was as straight forward as asking how and getting an immediate or simple response you are very naive.
You still never answered the question i asked which may in itself be an answer but ill try again...
What scheme are you registered and also what are your qualifications?

 

[David999]

Thanks Magnoliafan. Well I agree. I am just starting out and should have mentioned this at the outset. I am also newly registered with a competent person scheme. Qualifications. Part P. 18th edition. level 3 inspection and testing. 15 years self employed builder. Masters in Building crafts.

 

[Octopus]

Thanks Magnoliafan. Well I agree. I am just starting out and should have mentioned this at the outset. I am also newly registered with a competent person scheme. Qualifications. Part P. 18th edition. level 3 inspection and testing. 15 years self employed builder. Masters in Building crafts.

My 2 pennies worth ......... you are critical that people aren't jumping to give you step by step guides BUT remember, you could be bidding for work and the customer could be on here asking for advice on how to do it DIY ...... would you be handing out step by step advice to them?

Most of these forums are over run by chancers / DIYers and to say the least so of the "advice" is dubious to say the least.

My final advice is make sure your quote and invoice clearly state the design limit of the circuit .................so the customer can't haul you back in later to ask why he can't run a kiln in there without blowing the fuse!

 

[David999]

Thanks for explaining Murdoch, appreciate the advice.

 

[Jjc]

Hello I am new to this forum and need a little help from an experienced spark to help me design a circuit to wire a detached garage (two sockets and ceiling lights) from a house ring main to 18th edition standards. This will be notifiable so everything has to be pukka. Cable can be in steel trunking or armored but prefer steel trunking option. I do know the basics but as this is my first outbuilding wiring I would really appreciate some pointers. My idea is to replace a socket in the house to a switched 13 A FCU drill through wall to outside and use steel trunking buried under garden slabs to garage wall. Drill through garage wall and connect cable to an RCD (thinking that a mini CU is overkill) as the house CU doesn't have RCD protection. At this point not sure of best option to split garage supply to sockets and 3 amp protected lighting..... Thanks for your help.

If you are going to tap of the existing ring then I would quote for LED lights. Give them more to play with on the socket front.

 

[Jjc]

Hello I am new to this forum and need a little help from an experienced spark to help me design a circuit to wire a detached garage (two sockets and ceiling lights) from a house ring main to 18th edition standards. This will be notifiable so everything has to be pukka. Cable can be in steel trunking or armored but prefer steel trunking option. I do know the basics but as this is my first outbuilding wiring I would really appreciate some pointers. My idea is to replace a socket in the house to a switched 13 A FCU drill through wall to outside and use steel trunking buried under garden slabs to garage wall. Drill through garage wall and connect cable to an RCD (thinking that a mini CU is overkill) as the house CU doesn't have RCD protection. At this point not sure of best option to split garage supply to sockets and 3 amp protected lighting..... Thanks for your help.

If you are going to tap of the existing ring then I would quote for LED lights. Give them more to play with on the socket front.

My 2 pennies worth ......... you are critical that people aren't jumping to give you step by step guides BUT remember, you could be bidding for work and the customer could be on here asking for advice on how to do it DIY ...... would you be handing out step by step advice to them?

Most of these forums are over run by chancers / DIYers and to say the least so of the "advice" is dubious to say the least.

My final advice is make sure your quote and invoice clearly state the design limit of the circuit .................so the customer can't haul you back in later to ask why he can't run a kiln in there without blowing the fuse!

this forum is ----, unbelievable dangerous talk, electrical work is for qualified electricians only.

 

[Spoon]

this forum is ****, unbelievable dangerous talk, electrical work is for qualified electricians only.

I am just starting out and should have mentioned this at the outset. I am also newly registered with a competent person scheme. Qualifications. Part P. 18th edition. level 3 inspection and testing. 15 years self employed builder. Masters in Building crafts.

What do you class as a 'qualified electrician' mate? The above?
If not then what?
Do I have to call a 'qualified electrician' to change a light switch?

 

[Charlie_]

Based on his current level of expertise as an electrician, he can’t have been a very good builder

 

[DPG]

this forum is ****, unbelievable dangerous talk, electrical work is for qualified electricians only.

Thanks for your helpful input. You remind me of Shakespeare with your usage of words

 

[Charlie_]

Thanks for your helpful input. You remind me of Shakespeare with your usage of words

‘His wit’s as thick as a Tewkesbury mustard’

 

[Jjc]

What do you class as a 'qualified electrician' mate? The above?
If not then what?
Do I have to call a 'qualified electrician' to change a light switch?

non ofthem are qualifications, part p , any monkey can achieve that

What do you class as a 'qualified electrician' mate? The above?
If not then what?
Do I have to call a 'qualified electrician' to change a light switch?

None of the above. The only proper qualification is through an apprenticeship. So you think that changing a lightswitch requires no skill, knowledge or awareness of danger

 

[Spoon]

None of the above. The only proper qualification is through an apprenticeship.

Thanks for clearing that. I didn't do an apprenticeship, so therefore I'm not a 'qualified electrician'..

So you think that changing a lightswitch requires no skill, knowledge or awareness of danger

Please point out where I said that mate. You can twist words if you like.
IMO changing a light switch does not need a 'qualified electrician'.
I'm fine at changing a light switch, but, according to you, I'm not a 'qualified electrician'.

 

[Jjc]

Thanks for clearing that. I didn't do an apprenticeship, so therefore I'm not a 'qualified electrician'..



Please point out where I said that mate. You can twist words if you like.
IMO changing a light switch does not need a 'qualified electrician'.
I'm fine at changing a light switch, but, according to you, I'm not a 'qualified electrician'.

 

[Jjc]

Thanks for clearing that. I didn't do an apprenticeship, so therefore I'm not a 'qualified electrician'..



Please point out where I said that mate. You can twist words if you like.
IMO changing a light switch does not need a 'qualified electrician'.
I'm fine at changing a light switch, but, according to you, I'm not a 'qualified electrician'.

What does fine at changing a lightswitch mean? That doesn't mean you are a qualified electrician

 

[DPG]

So, Jjc, would you advise someone to get an electrician in to change a 13A plug?

Would you never do any work on your car, but always take it to an apprentice trained mechanic?

Some jobs are perfectly doable by a sensible person who knows their limits.

 

[Charlie_]

I personally found learning to drive and passing my driving test more difficult than becoming a qualified electrician.

 

[Jjc]

So, Jjc, would you advise someone to get an electrician in to change a 13A plug?

Would you never do any work on your car, but always take it to an apprentice trained mechanic?

Some jobs are perfectly doable by a sensible person who knows their limits.

 

[DPG]

Come on Jjc, hit the reply button and type!

 

[Charlie_]

We had to start using metal consumer units due to the amount of ‘qualified electricians’ that can’t even do the basics

 

[Jjc]

I get you angle, but I think that work like car repairs involves safety. I can hang a door in the house It will not be to qualified joiner standards but it is unlikely to injure or kill anyone. I am probably biased because I am indentured apprenticeship qualified and have worked with some frightening people doing electrical work on sites. One spark could not connect a multi gang switch. Another spark connected a three phase supply to a four gang switch.

 

[Charlie_]

The thing with unqualified tradesmen is that they know their limits..
Unfortunately that is not the case with the qualified ones

 

[DPG]

And that's exactly it Charlie - knowing your limits. Regardless of DIY or tradesman. It's not rocket science to change a light switch, or to change the brake pads in your car. As long as you are working within your capability.

 

[Spoon]

What does fine at changing a lightswitch mean? That doesn't mean you are a qualified electrician

I'm saying I'm capable and competent enough to change a light switch, but according to you I shouldn't be doing that, cause I didn't do an apprenticeship.

 

[Jjc]

I get you angle, but I think that work like car repairs involves safety. I can hang a door in the house It will not be to qualified joiner standards but it is unlikely to injure or kill anyone. I am probably biased because I am indentured apprenticeship qualified and have worked with some frightening people doing electrical work on sites. One spark could not connect a multi gang switch. Another spark connected a three phase supply to a four gang switch.

And that's exactly it Charlie - knowing your limits. Regardless of DIY or tradesman. It's not rocket science to change a light switch, or to change the brake pads in your car. As long as you are working within your capability.

Qualified tradesmen have limits, if they are say an installation electrician then they do installation work not maintenance but they have no limits within their scope and their scope is all electrical installation work. I won't change my own brake pads and I won't get Kwak fit ever to do it. Electrical apprenticeships are almost non existant hence the general low standards in the trade.

 

[Midwest]

Arrgh now I see where you lot have been spending your Saturday!

Whats was the original question again?

 

[Jjc]

Arrgh now I see where you lot have been spending your Saturday!

Whats was the original question again?

 

[Jjc]

Arrgh now I see where you lot have been spending your Saturday!

Whats was the original question again?

 

[DPG]

Keep trying, you can do it.

 

[Midwest]

Fat fingers perhaps.

 

[Spoon]

Keep trying, you can do it.

lmao.. I'd also give you a 'Winner' for that as well, but I can't

 

[Jjc]

I've forgotten, was it something about car repairs or door hanging?

 

[DPG]

Ah, Jjc has got a sense of humour after all. Nice one.

 

[Midwest]

I'm offfff to consume the chilli that got changed into spag bol, happy Saturday yol.

Incidentally, why are there so many shed supplies, as opposed hot tub supplies recently?

 

[Spoon]

Incidentally, why are there so many shed supplies, as opposed hot tub supplies recently?

We are all obese and can't get into the hot tubs...

 

[Jjc]

Ah, Jjc has got a sense of humour after all. Nice one.

I do like an intelligent conversation on a Saturday night , nothing else to do at my age.

 

[DPG]

I'm listening to Dr. Hook and Waylon Jennings with a whiskey.

 

[Charlie_]

Hang on.. are sheds exempt??

 

[Pete999]

Hang on.. are sheds exempt??

From what exactly?

 

[Jjc]

Ah, Jjc has got a sense of humour after all. Nice one.

I do like an intelligent conversation on a Saturday night , nothing else to do at my age.

Hang on.. are sheds exempt??

 

[Jjc]

I do like an intelligent conversation on a Saturday night , nothing else to do at my age.

 

[Jjc]

I do like an intelligent conversation on a Saturday night , nothing else to do at my age.

I do like an intelligent conversation on a Saturday night , nothing else to do at my age.

The missus has just sent me to the shed .

 

[dksanders]

If the OP has, as he claimed, passed his 2382-18 then he should know that the sockets need to be protected by a RCD; if he's his Part P, then he should know the job will need notifying first; the source may be an addition to the house circuit but it's a new installation into the detached garage, so he's putting a new installation in a 'Building Sharing a Supply with Dwelling' and a 'Detached Shed, Garage or Greenhouse'

His suggestions of using steel trunking in the ground (where it will rust away) and of using T&E in trunking tells me he shouldn't be doing any electrical work.

"However I checked his ring and there is not much on it." doesn't mean a thing, you have to calculate the circuit load allowing for diversity, after all the next occupier/next year, may have much more attached to it.

He says there's no water services to the garage but does it have ANY extraneous conductive parts?

This, as has been said, should be done properly as a sub main from the house CU to a GCU. It needn't mean lifting 40 slabs as the armoured cable could be clipped on the outside of the house wall/under the eaves etc, to the point where the OP is thinking of routing to the garage; or a 6mm T&E could be run into the roof void, across to that point, then junction to the armoured to come down the wall (e.g. behind a drain pipe?).

 

[Andy78]

Incidentally, why are there so many shed supplies, as opposed hot tub supplies recently?

Coming next week..... hot tubs in sheds ! With them being indoors are they now a bath or a swimming pool ?

 

[Midwest]

We are all obese and can't get into the hot tubs...

Speak for yourself, I'm on a diet.