nicely fried - 9.5kw shower, not certificates for the job

[buzzlightyear]

just got back from a customers ,hoping it a nice job and it was ,customers saying I cant push the isolator to the off position .
off comes the isolator wow that isolators fried ,so 6mm cable in and terminals tight has a ducks a88,now for the shower 9.5 kw .
now what about the rcd for it ,nice new bath room , wait a minute a 50amp so where is the rcd for this none .
looking at the 50amp no rcd, no rcbo and mem board and a wylex mcb . customer when was this fitted 3 months ago . so no test certs .
the customers says a bloke who comes to the local pub ,he does elcertics & plumbing came recommended and done a lot of bath rooms
so any test certs, why . if he does not test it then he is non compliant ,with who ,building control .so me and the customer had a chat about it .

 

[Baddegg]

It scares me that that makes perfect sense!..,,,any pics @buzzlightyear

 

[buzzlightyear]

t scares me that that makes perfect sense!..,,,any pics @buzzlightyear

IN A MINUTES

 

[oracle]

Been in lots of bathrooms, can I get work in my local pub as a Wetpants?

 

[buzzlightyear]

there you go
[automerge]1567183399[/automerge]

and the board .and he did not rub out the old circuit until I did .

 

[static zap]

Been in lots of bathrooms, can I get work in my local pub as a Wetpants?

Take care what you wish for, If overheard may find your-self fixing -Rather crusty Urinals-

 

[Timbo]

Take care what you wish for, If overheard may find your-self fixing -Rather crusty Urinals-

Stop taking the Part Pee.

 

[dmxtothemax]

So what caused the failure ?
6mm cable should handle 9.5Kw
what was the capacity of the switch ?
Or was it just loose connections
No test certs did not cause the failure
neither did rcd's
was it wrong size / type switch ?
What did the customer say to the cost of doing it right ?
we want details !

 

[littlespark]

Loose connection on the live, I’d say.
I never use a pull cord for a shower. Always too tight.

Was it an existing shower before the bathroom was done, maybe matey in the pub thought a new switch or new shower was like for like replacement and didn’t need an rcd.

Wylex breaker in MEM board. Now that’s unforgivable!

 

[buzzlightyear]

the possible the out going tails was not tight down on the switch isolator, but it saw tight .any way sticking a shower on 6mm boarder,has you say 50 amp no RCD.and a mixed mcb to boot .

 

[Lucien Nunes]

So what caused the failure ?... we want details !

This is such a common failure in the UK it's got rather boring. It's a combination of barely adequate switch construction resulting in high heat dissipation at the contacts even under good conditions, poorly terminated cables and the stress of forcing the cables back into the box loosening them and displacing the switch contacts. If any contact or termination is not 100% perfect, it will heat enough to oxidise, thermally relax the screw pressure, increase resistance and slide down the slippery slope to this point or worse, by which time it can be hard to point the finger at the switch or the installer.

I think the standard design is daft. The switch should be mounted into the box, then wired in situ, then the cover fitted. That, and a few more pennies spent on the switch spring action and contact design, would prevent most of these.

 

[buzzlightyear]

The showers is only 3 months old ,bathroom refurbished.,you could not say over time .

 

[sinewove]

This is such a common failure in the UK it's got rather boring. It's a combination of barely adequate switch construction resulting in high heat dissipation at the contacts even under good conditions, poorly terminated cables and the stress of forcing the cables back into the box loosening them and displacing the switch contacts. If any contact or termination is not 100% perfect, it will heat enough to oxidise, thermally relax the screw pressure, increase resistance and slide down the slippery slope to this point or worse, by which time it can be hard to point the finger at the switch or the installer.

I think the standard design is daft. The switch should be mounted into the box, then wired in situ, then the cover fitted. That, and a few more pennies spent on the switch spring action and contact design, would prevent most of these.

That's what I like about the Crabtree p/switch,50A rated and fixed to the ceiling before cables connected. S

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

One i replaced last week. Loose cpnnection over time had caused this on the line conductor. Cable needed stripping back 4 inches before it was ok for re terminating. 6mm cabke 8.5kW shower 40A MCB

 

[pirate]

I like the Crabtree ones, but generally I don't like pull-switches anyway. I prefer to bring the cable to a back-box on the wall outside the bathroom. Especially with 10mm cable. If you fit a double box like this

Axiom Dry Lining Box

BS5733.

www.toolstation.com

you can bring the cable into one side, cross over into the other side where the switch goes, and send it back out to the shower...plenty of room, fit a blanking plate, and you've got a perfect place for a small stash...
but I am going to put my tin hat on now...

 

[buzzlightyear]

at one time the manufactures use to put in 2 term screws per tails for isolator switches E.G showers in which where better ,how things have changed .

 

[telectrix]

i had to replace a crabtree the other week. it had gone O/C. then again, i had fitted it in 2004 and the client had been using it as an on/off switch for 15 years, so can't crumble.

 

[pirate]

All down to price, Buzz...
Imagine if you quoted for a job and chose good gear at say £10 more?
No chance!
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10K for a new kitchen?
No problem.
2k for a rewire to keep everything safe for years?
No chance!

 

[telectrix]

i always use decent gear. if the punter no like he can get silly spark from the pub, then call me when it goes ---- up.

 

[buzzlightyear]

All down to price, Buzz...
Imagine if you quoted for a job and chose good gear at say £10 more?
No chance!

the one I have to replace tomorrow is a click module one the same has before .

 

[telectrix]

the click is similar to the crabby.

 

[pirate]

Crabbies Green Ginger!
a favourite with the missus!

Crabbie's Green Ginger Wine Fruit Wine

A great ginger wine created by John Crabbie, an adventurer and explorer who pioneered trade from the Orient. He imported spices, herbs, fruit and ginger, all used to make his ginger wine.

www.masterofmalt.com

 

[telectrix]

had crabbies once, but the pox clinic fixed it.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

There are 2 versions click do, the ones similar to crabtree and the square faceplate version. The square faceplate version has 2 screws per terminal.

 

[Des 56]

i had to replace a crabtree the other week. it had gone O/C. then again, i had fitted it in 2004 and the client had been using it as an on/off switch for 15 years, so can't crumble.

That's half the battle,Joe public treating a shower switch as they would a light switch,try get them to leave it well alone
I tell them if it was a wall switch hidden by junk in the back of a pantry ,are they going to empty the pantry to operate it, they then get surprised when the ends get fried

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

That's half the battle,Joe public treating a shower switch as they would a light switch,try get them to leave it well alone
I tell them if it was a wall switch hidden by junk in the back of a pantry ,are they going to empty the pantry to operate it, they then get surprised when the ends get fried

But what about all the electricity the little neon uses

 

[Risteard]

There are 2 versions click do, the ones similar to crabtree and the square faceplate version. The square faceplate version has 2 screws per terminal.

The round ones have two screws per terminal (bar the cpc termination).

 

[davesparks]

That's half the battle,Joe public treating a shower switch as they would a light switch,try get them to leave it well alone
I tell them if it was a wall switch hidden by junk in the back of a pantry ,are they going to empty the pantry to operate it, they then get surprised when the ends get fried

It is a switch, it should be capable of being switched on and off regularly, that's the whole point of it being there.
What's the point in installing an ugly pull switch in a bathroom if you can't even use it? They obviously aren't any use for safe isolation as they can't be readily locked off.

 

[freddo]

The MK 3ph cooker switches are fitted to the back box before wiring, a much nicer design! Though you do have to wire the neon indicator in yourself...

 

[DPG]

The MK 3ph cooker switches are fitted to the back box before wiring, a much nicer design! Though you do have to wire the neon indicator in yourself...

13A mains sockets should use the same method. There would be no more risk of loosening connections when pushing the sockets back then.