No longer competant

[Mr Magoo]

After being self employed for the last 5 years and paying the NIC scam ransom i got fed up with the hassle of it all so took a full time on the books job and i am pleased i did,having a young family and mortgage its nice to know how much i have coming in each month,i have still been doing the odd job as i was still registered which has now rum out,so i am now no longer classed as competent as i aint registered,i have been asked by a mate to change a consumer unit i explained to him i aint registered anymore and he said he aint bothered as he knows my work will be safe and he would rather trust me than some clueless muppet out of the local rag (his words)so i guess i will have to notify my local LABC,will they charge me the full building notification fee or will they accept my certs(green)as i have 2391 been doing it for years and as of yesterday i was deemed competent by a scam provider.

Something just aint right with this Part P.

 

[Engineer54]

And there lies the very problem with this Part Pee crap!! A time served FULLY qualified and experienced electrician deemed not being competent!! Whereas a electrical trainee boy with literary no qualifications and certainly no experience is deemed competent because he has paid a fee to a scam provider!!! If that's not madness and stupidity personified, i don't know what is!! lol!!

 

[sedgy34]

After being self employed for the last 5 years and paying the NIC scam ransom i got fed up with the hassle of it all so took a full time on the books job and i am pleased i did,having a young family and mortgage its nice to know how much i have coming in each month,i have still been doing the odd job as i was still registered which has now rum out,so i am now no longer classed as competent as i aint registered,i have been asked by a mate to change a consumer unit i explained to him i aint registered anymore and he said he aint bothered as he knows my work will be safe and he would rather trust me than some clueless muppet out of the local rag (his words)so i guess i will have to notify my local LABC,will they charge me the full building notification fee or will they accept my certs(green)as i have 2391 been doing it for years and as of yesterday i was deemed competent by a scam provider.

think of it like this! if you dont do the job someone else will and less experienced and cause problems your friend will want you to sort out anyway.

 

[sedgy34]

And there lies the very problem with this Part Pee crap!! A time served FULLY qualified and experienced electrician deemed not being competent!! Whereas a electrical trainee boy with literary no qualifications and certainly no experience is deemed competent because he has paid a fee to a scam provider!!! If that's not madness and stupidity personified, i don't know what is!! lol!!

it just proves its all about the money

 

[cogsey133]

After being self employed for the last 5 years and paying the NIC scam ransom i got fed up with the hassle of it all so took a full time on the books job and i am pleased i did,having a young family and mortgage its nice to know how much i have coming in each month,i have still been doing the odd job as i was still registered which has now rum out,so i am now no longer classed as competent as i aint registered,i have been asked by a mate to change a consumer unit i explained to him i aint registered anymore and he said he aint bothered as he knows my work will be safe and he would rather trust me than some clueless muppet out of the local rag (his words)so i guess i will have to notify my local LABC,will they charge me the full building notification fee or will they accept my certs(green)as i have 2391 been doing it for years and as of yesterday i was deemed competent by a scam provider.

Something just aint right with this Part P.

And this is the crazy world we operate in......totally nuts to be considered competent yesterday but not today sort of thing

 

[Spazz]

Give your LABC a call and explain to them the situation.

My LABC charges non registered electricians half price (£60 instead of £120)

By the way you not being registered with NICEIC does not been your not competent - it just means you cant sign our own work off

 

[Mr Magoo]

I suppose i could pay a Electrical Trainee a drink for passing it for me after checking my test results of course,thats assuming he can understand them.

 

[RISElectrical]

You didnt hear this from me but..... just go and do the job and say no more!

I am in the same boat as you, I got fed up of the S/E life, not knowing where the money was coming from etc etc and so went back to contract management cards in. Still kept the old company open as i have some subbies that are still working for me, however its all commercial and industrial and I am yet to have the "part p" situation pop up (no longer scam member now either).

 

[Spazz]

Im sure you have a mate who has worked with you and seen your quality of work - throw him a few ££s and get him to sign it off - a CU change is very basic (as long as nothing pops up) - if he wanted to check it he could as everything is open!

Only you know what the best situation is - it would be worth a call to LABC and explain the situation - give no addresses! and ask them how much - might be worth doing it correctly - all up to you mate!

 

[RISElectrical]

Im sure you have a mate who has worked with you and seen your quality of work - throw him a few ££s and get him to sign it off - a CU change is very basic (as long as nothing pops up) - if he wanted to check it he could as everything is open!

Only you know what the best situation is - it would be worth a call to LABC and explain the situation - give no addresses! and ask them how much - might be worth doing it correctly - all up to you mate!

In the other thread you just stated that not to notify a notifiable job is a very bad thing to do, however its OK to get someone else to notify it for you? ;-)

 

[Darkwood]

I disagree with the mass here, im not aware of any enforcable law that states you cant sign off your own work if you dont posess the qualifations needed but are competent.
In a court of law your competence will be what is questioned not the piece of papers you own, a fully qualified electrician can be done for manslaughter just as easily as the next man, it may just mean its harder to proof your case if ever occured but a filed history of correctly written certs and good work standard is what i would say is all you need (competence been the word of the day here)

 

[Des 56]

Next year the chances are they will permit 3rd party tests for unregistered electricians and diyers

I dont know about the Diyer,but I recently jumped the gun on their proposals and was going to do the dirty deed myself for a sparky mate

I tested a couple of flats and completed the test schedule,the work wasn't notified however,but the council were still happy with what they got
No mention by them of notification,so that's just been bypassed

As far as I care,this part p has been no good since its inception and its time to make some use of it
If notification had been insisted on or asked for,I would probably have done it for him

 

[Dave 85]

Im sure you have a mate who has worked with you and seen your quality of work - throw him a few ££s and get him to sign it off - a CU change is very basic (as long as nothing pops up) - if he wanted to check it he could as everything is open!

Only you know what the best situation is - it would be worth a call to LABC and explain the situation - give no addresses! and ask them how much - might be worth doing it correctly - all up to you mate!

But Nicholas....
Getting other people to sign of your work is naughty and wrong
Surely you're not suggesting Mr Magoo do something naughty?

 

[Dave 85]

I disagree with the mass here, im not aware of any enforcable law that states you cant sign off your own work if you dont posess the qualifations needed but are competent.
In a court of law your competence will be what is questioned not the piece of papers you own, a fully qualified electrician can be done for manslaughter just as easily as the next man, it may just mean its harder to proof your case if ever occured but a filed history of correctly written certs and good work standard is what i would say is all you need (competence been the word of the day here)

I entirely agree.
If it were me and I wasn't registered (which I am) for whatever reason, and I wanted to do the odd private job for a freind I'd say...."BALLS TO LABC, BALLS TO PART P Im the bleedin sparky and I's doin the bleedin job"

Not suggesting that anyone else take this cavalier attitude towards nonsensical, unenforceable rules, just sayin what I'd do.

 

[sedgy34]

I entirely agree.
If it were me and I wasn't registered (which I am) for whatever reason, and I wanted to do the odd private job for a freind I'd say...."BALLS TO LABC, BALLS TO PART P Im the bleedin sparky and I's doin the bleedin job"

Not suggesting that anyone else take this cavalier attitude towards nonsensical, unenforceable rules, just sayin what I'd do.

So would I , just cause ur not paying a scam money???

 

[highspark]

End of the day he ain't registered so he's not allowed to do it without notifying building control. I've just paid over £800 to renew my part p so I don't give a damn if he competent or not. No part p no self notification

 

[Dave 85]

End of the day he ain't registered so he's not allowed to do it without notifying building control. I've just paid over £800 to renew my part p so I don't give a damn if he competent or not. No part p no self notification

I only pay £400 for part P.......am I allowed to do it? Or would that make you all bitter, angry and hard done by aswell?
Maybe I could just do half the job? Is that acceptable?

 

[Darkwood]

What it comes down to is if the worse was to happen does your background, your paperwork inc' certs etc all show your competence, any errors will be used a good defense against you if these errors were deemed to show a lack of understanding etc, recently a plumber was jailed even though he was corgi registered when a customer died of carbon monoxide poisoning, had he had an impecable standard and history he wouldn't have been charged and jailed but a lesser offense; the standard of his work had a trait of been below par and a bit bodgit.... think this made it manslaughter.

As i said... being registered or in a scheme gives a certain wall of protection but incompetence will make it null and void and this works the other way round, if you are highly competent, have a good decade of experience doing what you are doing - better still with a company who was registered then you stand good grounds to proving your competence, its whether you take the risk and do it alone. Il stand corrected but its not a prosecutable offense to work anywhere in an house without notification, im in the understanding it will only be enforced if your work is dangerous or poor standards, no councils want to waste money on cases that they might lose.

 

[highspark]

What planet are you on Dave Electrical Trainee. You are registered so there's no qualms about price you strange man

 

[sedgy34]

I pay £380 or something like that but if I wasn't renewing my enrolment
i would still do the work as a competent time served spark
no one cares only the proper sparks who spent 4yrs training not the 5wwders

 

[Dave 85]

What planet are you on Dave Electrical Trainee. You are registered so there's no qualms about price you strange man

And what leads you to presume I'm a Electrical Trainee?

 

[mamamaka]

:hurray:

 

[sedgy34]

Time served sparks don't agree with 5wwders most arnt competent and don't understand theory of ac current and electricity ohms law etc!!!
the 5 wwders will disagree and say they spent 5 weeks doing part p and are an electrician

Taking these into aaccount the scams are to blame for signing the 5wwders up knowing they don't know what EEBADS means or ADS they don't grasp the theory of ohms law etc
and are let into people's houses to carry out work do you think general public would have a 5wwder on there house if they actually knew the guy had little experience in the trade.

 

[RISElectrical]

I'm no longer registered with a scam but i would be quite confident that in a court I could prove my competence, time served JIB approved and a NICEIC QS for a company it makes me so pee'd off that I cant wire a kitchen for somebody or change a CU in the eyes of a Electrical Trainee. True it costs you £400 a year... but in true reflection the route you took to become qualified cost a hell of a lot less than it cost me I bet

 

[highspark]

Point I'm making is I've just paid an annual fee so I can continue to sign off my own work. So why should anyone tell this guy To go ahead and do it without being registered. It's these type of things that part p was introduced for. He's not registered so there for no he shouldn't just do it.

 

[telectrix]

and who's to know if he doesn't notify? the part p gestapo? LABC aren't bothered unless there's a disaster and then questions will be asked.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Bit of a mixed bag there,decided to have a look at what good old Approved Doc P had to say (been a while since i looked at it)and it seems my situation is kind of catered for in paragraphs 1.22 and 1.23.

It says for a Qualified Electrician who is NOT registered they may be willing to accept a generic green cert but they may also ask for proof of quals,no problem there so i might just make this a bit of a test case with my LABC just for the crack,hopefully will be a reduced fee.

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[telectrix]

​

It says for a Qualified Electrician who is NOT registered they may be willing to accept a generic green cert but they may also ask for proof of quals,no problem there so i might just make this a bit of a test case with my LABC just for the crack,hopefully will be a reduced fee​

​

they will want a huge fee, as they say they have to issue a building notice. ( what the hell is being built? ) ..there is no mention of that in the part p doc.
​

 

[Dave 85]

Point I'm making is I've just paid an annual fee so I can continue to sign off my own work. So why should anyone tell this guy To go ahead and do it without being registered. It's these type of things that part p was introduced for. He's not registered so there for no he shouldn't just do it.

It was not these type of things that part P was introduced for!
They are an unavoidable side effect
Part P was primarily introduced to discourage builders and the like doing all their own wiring, badly, without any knowledge of regs day in, day out. Why on earth would anyone want to try and prevent competent electricians from doing their job?

I personally think its well worth being registered if you do a lot of domestic work, many clients, builders, developers etc will avoid you if you are not (and they can easily find out). It is of course, not worth being registered if you do very little domestic work.
With regards to the occasional unnotified job.....If the contractor don't care, the client don't care, the government don't care, the police don't care, LABC don't care, the courts don't care.......
Then why in the hell do you care so much?

 

[RISElectrical]

What makes me laugh is the amount of people that say no you cannot do a notifiable job and no notify as its breaking the law, then go and do a notifiable cu change, inform LABC via there scam provider etc so it's all lawful..... But to do the change they pull the DNO fuse and cut the seal.... You see what I'm getting at

 

[alarm man]

has any spark actually been up in front of the beak for not following part p.ive searched and cant find anything,it wouldnt stand up in a court of law with a half descent solicitor imo,i do my own work in my own home as many non part p do..and i will continue too..and im certainly not paying for the privilege to do so.

 

[ExArmy]

But to do the change they pull the DNO fuse and cut the seal.... You see what I'm getting at

the seals on all my jobs are already cut or broken......it's very hard for the DNO to prove otherwise. where as it's not so easy to make a living as a domestic spark without notifying work

 

[Poptasticdave]

I've just joined this forum because I wanted to ask a question myself, and in fact by chance it looks like this thread might be a good place to ask it. PLease forgive me if it's not "the done thing" to ask a Q in someone else's thread.

My question was going to be: "Which of the Professional Bodies would most of you recommend that I join?". To put this in context, I've been a qualified Electrician since 15th Ed regs, but I've not done electrical work as my employment since 16th Ed regs were still in force. More or less for my own personal satisfaction I've kept myself up to date and done my 17th Ed conversion exams. Now redundancy in my present work looms and I'm considering going back to electrical work. NIC (who I was with back in the 80's and ear;y 90's) seem to be extortionate now, but other organisations, which I've little experience of and previously considered to be a poor second choice, are not much cheaper.

I'd be grateful for folk's opinions on which body / bodies is / are best.

Whilst I'm at it I might as well ask if anyone has any 'favourite' insurers too, as that scene is equally changed from when I was last a sparky.

And, just to keep on topic, IMHO I would rather not risk doing work I could not certify, but I do agree that Part P is an absolute joke and I know for a fact that at least 3 sparks I know very well have dropped NIC membership and stopped doing mains work in favour of doing alarm systems instead because they resent paying for Part P reg in the full knowledge that Joe Cowboy is still going out and doing illegal and unsafe work just as much as ever before. (One of these being a guy who tested and signed off a full rewire for me on the very last day he was reg'd and wished me luck saying that he'd never choose to become a spark in today's environment.)

 

[sedgy34]

all as bad as each other just pick one

 

[Dave 85]

I use elecsa (ECA). Im very satisfied with them, all I want is a quiet life and to be left alone and that is more or less what they give me.

I have to say, it does baffle me the amount of people who gave up electrical work as some kind of pathetic protest at the introduction of part P. Lets face it, £400 a year is nowt considering a well established sparky should me making 100 times that.

Also did none of these guys predict the rather obvious fact that earnings for a domestic spark shot up sharply after the introduction of part P? Ok they didn't neccesarily stay up as high as 2006/7 in all areas but in my experience there were plenty of self employed electricians working for £10-£12 an hour on private jobs in the late 90's early 00's and by 2006 the standard was more or less double this. In fact a lot of domestic electricians have been making huge amounts of money since the introduction of part P.

 

[Spazz]

Out of interest is there any harm in putting down that he was a contractor for the tester electrician.
That way you can put down that Mr Magoo did the work (he signs the installer) and Tester did the testing and they sign that box?

 

[gutterball]

Let's face facts the average client just wants the work done as cheaply as possible. They aren't interested in having someone from the council sticking there nose in. Better you doing it right rather than some bodger from the pub.

 

[sedgy34]

yes but the bodger is a couple of pints of guinness a trades man is a cpl of barrells

 

[Guest55]

I use elecsa (ECA). Im very satisfied with them, all I want is a quiet life and to be left alone and that is more or less what they give me.

I have to say, it does baffle me the amount of people who gave up electrical work as some kind of pathetic protest at the introduction of part P. Lets face it, £400 a year is nowt considering a well established sparky should me making 100 times that.

Also did none of these guys predict the rather obvious fact that earnings for a domestic spark shot up sharply after the introduction of part P? Ok they didn't neccesarily stay up as high as 2006/7 in all areas but in my experience there were plenty of self employed electricians working for £10-£12 an hour on private jobs in the late 90's early 00's and by 2006 the standard was more or less double this. In fact a lot of domestic electricians have been making huge amounts of money since the introduction of part P.

The rapid increase in the number of electricians since part p and Electrical Trainee came about has actually driven down wage levels , not as you say , shot up.
You cant move for electricians in my home town , they roam the streets in part p packs lol.

 

[sedgy34]

biff55
sparky vans are everywhere, theres not many time served driving them though

 

[LukeBuckaz]

A guy at my place has never done a days college and is on the same wage rate as me, I'm fully time served with 2391. Makes me sick!

 

[Dave 85]

The rapid increase in the number of electricians since part p and Electrical Trainee came about has actually driven down wage levels , not as you say , shot up.
You cant move for electricians in my home town , they roam the streets in part p packs lol.

I appreciate things have changed now but am I not right in thinking that the whole Electrical Trainee thing didn't really take off in a big way till a few years after part P? Also this is an inevitable consequence of the recession, degrees arn't worth crap anymore, a rumour went round a few years back that plumbers and sparks make a killing (which some did and still do) everybody thought "well there'll always be work for sparkies/scummers so I'll retrain, ooh look a 5 week course"

 

[brav]

If there was a top year cut off this wouldnt happen, i.e if your certs/invoices/assesments/exams/jobs prove uve been a time served electrician for ten years or with a scheme for say six years then u no longer need to be with any scheme to do notifiable work. I think tht way it would be more generally accepted.
Also this could only be for full scope electricians, not a plumber doing part p.
At least then full time electricians could see the light at the end of the scheme tunnel and wouldnt think of it as an endless scam, more of a competency proving phase before being approved to take on notifiable without having to notify anyone.

 

[DurhamSparky]

if it was me,

i would change box, issue friend with relevant certificate (just in case he sells house)

and say no more on the matter...!!

 

[telectrix]

as above^^^

 

[mickys86]

as above^^^

Agreed

 

[DurhamSparky]

Agreed ^^^ as above...


got to love red tape

 

[Mr.Si]

What makes me laugh is the amount of people that say no you cannot do a notifiable job and no notify as its breaking the law, then go and do a notifiable cu change, inform LABC via there scam provider etc so it's all lawful..... But to do the change they pull the DNO fuse and cut the seal.... You see what I'm getting at

Safe Isolation...

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Des 56]

It seems these days, that just plucking a screwdriver or dare I say, a knife out of your bag to do a job,it instantly sets off the "you cant do that alarm" brigade

Seals and Notifiable work,scams.Perhaps its time to just be the electrician you always were,that is, before these internet forums became infested with the fear of god types :yes:

 

[DurhamSparky]

nothing worse that a Internet Electrician....!!!

cant do this cant do that...... i would do this....

............ off