Outdoor socket notifiable

[067256]

Sorry to go over old ground but just need clarification. I have extended the ring main in a kitchen and customer now wants an outdoor socket. Is this now notifiable?
I believe not as ammended rules state notifiable for new DB, new circuit, work in special location?
Thanks.

 

[Badged01]

In which country did you do the work -- or propose to do the work?

 

[trev]

I think outside is still notifiable but check in Approved Document P

 

[trev]

Assuming you're in England or Wales of course just like Badged suggested

 

[NickD]

Sorry to go over old ground but just need clarification. I have extended the ring main in a kitchen and customer now wants an outdoor socket. Is this now notifiable?
I believe not as ammended rules state notifiable for new DB, new circuit, work in special location?
Thanks.

Was the ring extension in a *kitchen* not notifiable in the first place? Note to self to get up to speed with the Building Regs changes.

 

[trev]

Afaik Nick kitchens were taken out of the scope of it. Could be wrong though, there's a first time for everything

 

[Badged01]

Part P has different rules depending on whether you are in gods country (Wales) or in the badlands (England) ....... the part of the kingdom we are hopefully getting rid of soon (Scotland) has its own way of doing things!

 

[067256]

Haha....i am in Badlands.
Just read ADP and notifiable for installation of a new circuit, new consumer unit and addition, alteration in special location.

 

[trev]

Yes but is outside mentioned in the definition of a special location?

 

[Badged01]

In that case as I understand it in the badlands you can extend your ring and go outdoors without being reported!

 

[Badged01]

Yes but is outside mentioned in the definition of a special location?

Location with a bath/shower, sauna or swimming pool. Outdoors and kitchens is now fine for the cowboys to do what they want ....

 

[067256]

Yes but is outside mentioned in the definition of a special location?

No, just the usual containing a bath or shower. A sauna or swimming pool.

 

[067256]

Location with a bath/shower, sauna or swimming pool. Outdoors and kitchens is now fine for the cowboys to do what they want ....

Quite surprised....and amazed after reading through the AD.

 

[Andy78]

Not quite.
The definition of a bathroom special location in BS7671 is different to a bathroom special location in part P 2013.
Work is only notifiable in England if alterations have taken place within the zones defined in section 701 of the regs.

 

[HandySparks]

Approved doc P, 2013 edition:

In England the scope of notifiable work has been cut back to:
New CU;
New circuit;
Change or addition to a special location, which is bath or shower zones 0, 1 and 2 only, plus rooms containing a swimming pool or sauna heater.

So no notification required in this case (in England).

 

[trev]

Every day's a school day, cheers lads.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I have lot the plot reading this thread, but i assume you are putting a socket outside. If it is fixed to the house wall, then it is not notifiable.

 

[Octopus]

Don't forget a rewire is notifiable

 

[Hawkmoon]

I have lot the plot reading this thread, but i assume you are putting a socket outside. If it is fixed to the house wall, then it is not notifiable.

And presumably (from the kitchen rfc) if you run swa 20M across your garden and mount it in your shed, it is not notifiable

 

[HandySparks]

And presumably (from the kitchen rfc) if you run swa 20M across your garden and mount it in your shed, it is not notifiable

Correct. Only notifiable if it's a new circuit, even if outdoors.

I think it's crazy, myself. For the amount of work that has to be notified, it's hardly worth bothering to stay registered.

 

[NickD]

I think it's crazy, myself. For the amount of work that has to be notified, it's hardly worth bothering to stay registered.

And what with making registration harder with the changes to the EAS too, they might as well just start issuing spurs saddles and Colt 45s...

 

[Hawkmoon]

Correct. Only notifiable if it's a new circuit, even if outdoors.

I think it's crazy, myself. For the amount of work that has to be notified, it's hardly worth bothering to stay registered.

It's the cu changes that make it worthwhile - a rewire you could price to cover notification through BC

 

[Badged01]

And what with making registration harder with the changes to the EAS too, they might as well just start issuing spurs saddles and Colt 45s...

All I can think is there must be more cowboys in the badlands as in gods own country we've still kept the 'original' part P definitions! Or is it that they just dont trust us ......

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Correct. Only notifiable if it's a new circuit, even if outdoors.

I think it's crazy, myself. For the amount of work that has to be notified, it's hardly worth bothering to stay registered.

.....erm ..... Yes......:crazy:.....I had the same thought myself

 

[Octopus]

I must say that dropping kitchens from Part P seems a mistake - I used to get CU changes from that, but now far fewer so I can only conclude that kitchen companies in general must be ignoring BS7671

 

[Richard Burns]

I must say that dropping kitchens from Part P seems a mistake - I used to get CU changes from that, but now far fewer so I can only conclude that kitchen companies in general must be ignoring BS7671

I am mortified that I did not see that one, kitchen fitting is big business, and they say "what we have to notify all this lot?, no way, take it out of Part P,
we want more profit and certainly do not want to have to state we did it right".
Or am I just being a bit cynical.

With the reduction in scope it is now nearly worth it for me to notify BC directly, unfortunately they are very expensive around here so not quite worth it.

 

[Badged01]

Yep, I cant understand the logic of why England decided to opt out and reduce the requirement for notification ---- and effectively Part P schemes starting to cut their throats as the benifits of being registered are slowly eroded and 'electricans' leave and just add LABC costs to the samll jobs where needed!

 

[Geoffsd]

You don't need to wade through ADP.

This is the law - Building Regulations:

“(6A)A person intending to carry out building work in relation to which Part P of Schedule 1 imposes a requirement is required to give a building notice or deposit full plans where the work consists of -
.

(a) the installation of a new circuit;​

(b) the replacement of a consumer unit; or
(c) any addition or alteration to existing circuits in a special location.”;

This is all there is - in England

 

[jimmymac]

Don't forget a rewire is notifiable

Just to confuse things a little more....It depends how many storeys the house has

 

[R G]

This now lets kitchen fitters do what they want now , what a grave mistake , after all a major part of our work is putting right what they have done.

 

[telectrix]

new circuit/s in a kitchen is still notifiable though. interesting thing i just seen in the revised part p doc. is that it states that an notifiable work done by a non-scam member may be inspected by a registered competent person who would complete an EICR, not an EIC.

 

[R G]

new circuit/s in a kitchen is still notifiable though. interesting thing i just seen in the revised part p doc. is that it states that an notifiable work done by a non-scam member may be inspected by a registered competent person who would complete an EICR, not an EIC.

I know new is notifiable , but all theses fitters are going to do is extend and reuse the existing as we all know ,,

 

[Geoffsd]

This now lets kitchen fitters do what they want now , what a grave mistake , after all a major part of our work is putting right what they have done.

Yes, which was one of the original reasons for all this P nonsense.

A cynic may suspect lobbying by the big companies (which didn't work in Wales (yet)).

 

[NickD]

All I can think is there must be more cowboys in the badlands as in gods own country we've still kept the 'original' part P definitions! Or is it that they just dont trust us ......

Wales should have its very own Part LL.

 

[willy fixit]

Does not the spur to the garden (or anywhere) count as a new circuit? Or does it have to be from the CU?

 

[Richard Burns]

Any spur is adding to an existing circuit, a new circuit would be a new protective device at the consumer unit with dedicated cabling.

 

[Engineer54]

All this ''limited scope'' crap for kitchen fitters, plumbers and the like, brought about by the scam providers to line their own coffers, should be brought to an immediate and abrupt end forthwith.
The worst intrusion into our industry next to the creation of the Electrical Trainee's. This is yet another nail in the demise of the UK's electrical industry. It's not seen anywhere else in the Western World, ...and for very good reasons!!


An absolutely ludicrous situation!!!

 

[NickD]

I think we need more publicity for when electricity causes harm. Obviously if someone actually gets electrocuted there's a fair chance it makes the papers/media and into the public awareness. But other than that, you hardly hear a thing. When there's a gas explosion it's always in the media as GAS EXPLOSION!!!! and so people get the (correct) impression that messing with gas is bloody stupid if you aren't a pro. What you don't get is HOUSE FIRE CAUSED BY ELECTRICS!!!! so people start thinking electrics are inherently fairly safe and it's OK to mess with. This needs to change.

 

[uksparks]

It is very clear and in plain English on page 6 of Approved Document P section 2.5

No it is NOT notifiable.



Approved Document P here: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_P_2013.pdf

 

[Octopus]

Just to confuse things a little more....It depends how many storeys the house has

??????

 

[uksparks]

Just to confuse things a little more....It depends how many storeys the house has

Maybe up your way, but down here it makes no odds.

 

[spark 68]

All this ''limited scope'' crap for kitchen fitters, plumbers and the like, brought about by the scam providers to line their own coffers, should be brought to an immediate and abrupt end forthwith.
The worst intrusion into our industry next to the creation of the Electrical Trainee's. This is yet another nail in the demise of the UK's electrical industry. It's not seen anywhere else in the Western World, ...and for very good reasons!!


An absolutely ludicrous situation!!!

The thing is though E54, before Part Pee anybody could do anything with no notification required at all, not that I am defending Part Pee, far from it, but before that there was no need to be even a Electrical Trainee, limited scope or anything else.

Part Pee was always half-arsed, and is part of the problem, it forms a self perpetuating scam always round.

I am not really sure what the answer is to be honest, unless we go the fully licensed route, which somehow I cannot see happening anytime soon in this country.

Even if we did go fully licensed there has always been those that will ignore it.

Edit: I personally think that notification had bog all to do with safety (although it was claimed under that guise), and more to do with tax and tradespeople working "on the black" by providing a paper trail.