Part P electrician certifying non-part P electrician question (groan...)

[marshr02]

Okay. I'm a Chartered Electrical Engineer in the day job, who is rewiring his house as part of a wider major house refurb. Have also passed 2381, 2391 C&G exams. I have a Building Control Application that includes the electrical work. I want to have as little to do with the LABC as possible. As I'm doing the design, and installation clearly I will be supplying an EIC for the work, with test results.

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I suspect the LABC testing to check my work is basically getting their electricians to complete a PIR. In which case can I not supply that myself, by employing a part P electrician to complete a PIR. The certification still takes place via my building control application. Just I get more control by organising the PIR myself? Any thoughts folks? I could ask the LABC these questions but they seem so unsure I wanted to take control. Cheers

 

[bigbaddave]

Best speak to them but I expect they will want to cream as much cash from you as possible

 

[Octopus]

The ONLY people who can give you a definite answer is your LABC.

 

[marshr02]

Thanks guys. Really looking for people's experience's - not a definitive answer. Has anyone done a PIR report on work done by non-part P electrician for the purposes of satisfying LABC? Cheers

 

[Richard Burns]

Until April this year getting an self certification scheme registered electrician to inspect your work is not permitted (but does happen), I doubt if the LABC would be happy if you told them this.
The best bet is for you to tell the LABC that you are a competent electrician and will supply the EIC for the installation and hope they do not charge you anything, it is up to them what they will consider suitable.
Since the work is covered by the planning application you might hope that they would accept you doing the inspect and test.
(and PIRs are now EICRs)

 

[Engineer54]

I you are an electrical C Eng, and you are in possession of an overall building permission notice (or whatever they are called now) just show the LABC your credentials, i doubt if any of them will want to argue the ---- with you, or have anyone come out to inspect your installation and conduct installation tests!! lol!!

 

[telectrix]

question: is the building work subject to involvment with LABC, i.e. have they raised a building notice? if so, then if you give them a copy of your quals., they should allow you to certificate the work and just give them a copy of the cert. you don't need a scheme member to sign it off.

 

[marshr02]

Thanks for the reply Richard. Didn't know PIR had been renamed! will look that up ... Not sure if I have been clear - I would be getting a Part P registered electrician to complete a EICR as further evidence to calm down the LABC. The LABC do not really want anything to do with electrical assessments, so merely charge a lot for a Part P registered firm to presumably do exactly this (as clearly only I can fill in the EIC) [[[I could ask the LABC these questions BUT my project is of a long standing nature - eves and weekends - and quite frankly I do not want too much attention before the other non-electrical work is safer. It would be great to be able to plasterboard over 1st fix cables NOW]]]

 

[Octopus]

Didn't you like the answers last time you asked this?

http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...ing-control-route-notifiable-2.html#post27514

 

[marshr02]

Thanks for reply Engineer54 - but I believe they really do want to abdicate any electrical decisions to their own provided part P companies at my expense (for electrical work submitted via the building control route)

 

[marshr02]

Thanks for reply Murdoch. Too be fair this was 4 years ago, and they were vague then (as I say, long term project) :6:

 

[Octopus]

Thanks for reply Murdoch. Too be fair this was 4 years ago, and they were vague then (as I say, long term project) :6:

YOU need to talk to LABC. They are the only ones who can make the decision.

 

[Des 56]

You could have got an approved inspector yourself for the whole project and have no involvement with Labc inspectors

In my experience,they couldn't give a monkeys who supplies the certification,they would be extremely unlikely to go to the effort of actually checking if the person is registered for self certification
Maybe that's why it will all virtually become irrelevent in April

 

[marshr02]

Thanks Murdoch. I sort of realise this. Just thought it would be interesting to get the forums experiences.:rolleyes4:

 

[marshr02]

Des56. Thanks. I think you have just filled a gap in my knowledge.... I'm going to go off and look this up. I heard changes were afoot from April - any thought on this?

 

[Richard Burns]

A Part P registered electrician is an electrician who is registered with one of the self certification schemes. These allow the electrician to provide notification of Building Regulations compliance of their own work by sending notification to their scheme provider. They do not permit notification of others work. If the electrician is part of a company, and is the qualified supervisor, then they can approve work done by their other non QS electricians.
Telling LABC that you will have an EICR done by a Part P registered electrician should ( but because they are not organised probably won't) cause them to inform you that you are breaking the law.

From April 2013 electricians can register as third party inspectors and do exactly what you describe; perform an EICR on third party work and have it approved.

 

[marshr02]

Ah-ha. Looking up possible changed to Part P from April 2013:

• Suitably trained and qualified members of Competent person schemes will in future be
  permitted to certify the work of others who are not registered electricians, thereby by-
  passing the building control body entirely. We envisage this will be on the basis of
  inspection and testing of the finished installation and will not necessarily include an
  inspection at first fix as assumed in the consultation stage Impact Assessment.

This is similar to what I'm to achieve. (Although my first fix cables are available for inspection.)

 

[marshr02]

Thanks Richard. ""Telling LABC that you will have an EICR done by a Part P registered electrician should ( but because they are not organised probably won't) cause them to inform you that you are breaking the law."" AH, BUT I'M NOT GETTING THE ELECTRICIAN TO CERTIFY THE WORK, THEY ARE PROVIDING EVIDENCE OF COMPLIANCE TO LABC SO LABC CAN CERTIFY THE WORK VIA THE LARGER BUILDING CONTROL APPLICATION.

""From April 2013 electricians can register as third party inspectors and do exactly what you describe; perform an EICR on third party work and have it approved"". (OUR POSTS CROSSED - YES THIS SEEMS TO BE SO) ................ Cheers for everyone's help ...............................

 

[telectrix]

@ marshr02, did you read my post #7?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Hi Mars,

Heres a link that may help (although looks like you've pretty much worked it out already)

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_P_2013.pdf

If you look at the 2nd page in, it states:

"An installer who is not a registered competent person may use a registered third party to certify notifiable electrical installation work as an alternative to using a building control body"

So it looks like you can stay well away from the LABC :teeth_smile: