pir coding for rewireable fuse carrier with asbestos flashguard

[smaloney10]

Looking for some help not came across this situation before, doing pir in domestic property and the consumer unit is old mem type board with rewireable fuses, some have been changed to bs 1361 fuses but the ones that haven't have asbestos flashguard in them. What code would you suggest? Thanks

 

[Goody]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, code 2, I guess!

 

[netblindpaul]

Can't give it a code 2 because there is nothing in 7671 wrt asbestos.
That is there is nothing that says asbestos materials don't comply with 7671.
You must notify the customer, best way is an associated comments section appended to your PIR.
Thing is with a code 2 that infers that it could be electrically dangerous, it is not.
In fact if left undisturbed even under CAWR there is no reason to change.
HOWEVER, the client if commercial or a private or social housing landlord MUST have an asbestos survey a copy of which MUST be given to any persons likely to come into contact with the asbestos and this MUST detail ALL asbestos in the premises including that in electrical switch gear.

 

[Dean Williams]

ive always been told (including by the NIC) to put it down as code 1.

 

[morph]

no code

 

[netblindpaul]

ive always been told (including by the NIC) to put it down as code 1.

In which case I would be asking the NICEIC to give you the BS7671 reg no. to justify that.
My clients will NOT accept a PIR unless every observation is backed up by a reg no.

 

[netblindpaul]

no code

Quite morph, however, it must be reported to the client.

HOWEVER,
Unless you are an asbestos surveyor and have had the material tested you cannot categorically state that it is an ACM.
Remember even to take samples IIRC you must be trained & competent.
Which most of us are not, however, we all must be trained to the basic level in asbestos awareness to comply with the CAWR.

 

[i=p/u]

i opro=bably need that training, i always think about it

 

[smaloney10]

code 2 requires action to remove potential danger. well if the fuse blows and the tenant has to replace the fuse wire does that not pose a danger to them and i assume i have a duty to protect them from this. have a read at this below.

The Solution to Risk Management.Under controlled conditions and by following HSE Guidelines for handing asbestos in this situation (download HSE guides a30 & a33), it is perfectly safe theoretically to replace blown fuses.In virtually all cases however, this will not be the case, as a blown fuse needs replacing "right now". Control measures required when exposing asbestos require area sheeting-off, the use of PPE by the operative, shadow vacuuming of the area and more. In other words, it is a major task and will probably result in long-term loss of power to the affected circuit and will also involve the engagement of operatives suitable trained and competent to work with asbestos.In practical terms, the only logical solution is either asbestos removal and fuse carrier and fuse replacement (assuming replacement carriers are still available) or complete replacement of the fuse board with a modern MCB type distribution board, thereby removing the risk.


​

 

[netblindpaul]

smaloney10,

Where did you get that paragraph from please?
That is not the advice, information or training that is being given by many recognised organisations.
When replacing a fuse wire or cartridge, you should not be disturbing the asbestos at all.
If the asbestos is undisturbed then it poses no danger.

 

[smaloney10]

Electrical-testing.co.uk/p/articles/asbestos-containing-fuse-boards

 

[mogga]

NET PAUL Advice iv been given by an asbestos contractor neighbour of mine is "LEAVE WELL ALONE as when removing the carrier the asbestos is disturbed and particals "Blow" out due to a vacume effect the ACM used will by all probability be dry and possibly crumbling "
As codes go we have been advised by both client and HnS advisor that code 4 so long as asbestos survey is complete we do not open dbs with warning lables on them on Obbs and Recs sheet we recomend replacement at earliest opertunity as the fuses become effectivly irreplaceable due to the asbestos and risk assesments ,monitors in place to prevent disturbance
I had a full hotel with every db containing asbestos no verification no i.R testing No ring testing and a big list of limitations due to asbestos

the other thing of concern would be the "Acts and ommisions" line in the HSAWA you omitted to warn of the danger your last man there CYA by puting concerens in print let client know and hence they take responcability you have told them

Altho no code exists the opertunity is there to RECOMEND replacement under HnSAW and as your last one there and deem it unsafe ( albe it not electricaly unsafe0 it is unsafe to work on and the control meassures required make it impracxtical to do any maintenance work on the db concerened

 

[netblindpaul]

Electrical-testing.co.uk/p/articles/asbestos-containing-fuse-boards

Then it is NOT worth the paper it is written on.

Check the statute law & HSE guidance, then the training given by the UKATA.
Anything else will just land you in prison.

 

[netblindpaul]

Mogga,
Regardless of anything else, you cannot make the existence of asbestos ANY code under 7671 as this electrical standard does NOT cover asbestos.
You should NEVER be surprised by the discovery of ANY asbestos in a commercial premises or any social housing.
The owner MUST provide you with the details of any asbestos present prior to your works else they are committing a criminal offence.
You are also breaking the law if you don't ask for it.

You are correct in that once the material is identified, things differ.

Not many electricians are competent to formally identify asbestos. Also officially it requires laboratory testing. Thus, one must assume asbestos.
One must inform the customer if you suspect the presence of ACM's this is statute law, however, either or both of you are already in trouble by this point!
The information can be attached to a PIR, but, not "really" form part of a PIR and cannot be coded on the PIR.

 

[Engineer54]

What a load of old crap has been written here by the asbestos scaremongers!! We are talking about tiny bits of the stuff, that are not disturbed for years on end under normal circumstances. On top of that, it is the least harmful of all the asbestos. It was exclusively white asbestos that was used for all these rewireable 3036 flash guards.


During the course of my training, one of the jobs given to me during shutdowns, was to go round all the fuse boards in a particular area and replace the flash-guards with new. I had a roll of the stuff for each fuse frame size and cut it to suit. OK the replacement asbestos was new and not old, and even the stuff i was replacing was generally not more than a year or so old. But here we are worrying about tiny strips of white asbestos that are rarely seen let alone touched!!


There are far more dangerous things to worry about in our electrical industry, than these tiny strips of white asbestos...