pir questions

[dochisholm]

ok my first pir is going ok. COuple of questions to finish ot up firstly there was no earth at a metal light in the lounge as it was twin with no earth replaced for insulated pendant ok for a code 4 now?. The downlights in the upstairs hall are class 2 rated with no earth running to them on twin cable code 4?. finally in writing up my report i have put testing or only accesbile sockets. This incorporates drops to appliances under worktops is this an acceptable term for limitation or should i clarify also any sockets i could not access due to furniture e.t.c

 

[telectrix]

sounds ok to me. remember to label the CU as no cpc on lighting, use class 2 fittings only. might give it a code 2, as requiring improvement. see what othewrs say.

 

[Guest 004]

yep code 2, and code 4 it, the more comments the better right?, you should also mention all the accessories you could not access, ie known socket in living room, behind furniture inaccessible.
More writing, but makes the report look good.

 

[dochisholm]

there is cpc on lighting just a jb above ceiling to this one metal light in lounge with only twin to it. and the downlights have a jb with short length on twin to the back of the lights which are class 2

 

[telectrix]

i'd mark it down as incomplete/missing cpc's and give it a code 2. alternatively. repair the fault from the JBs ( chargeable of course ) then you can give it a satisfactory after testing.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I've just been 'informed' that code 2 defects do not prevent a 'satisfactory' assessment!

Especially if they complied at the time!

No wonder half the PIR's I come across are toilet paper!

Just for info for anyone with any doubts, here is the link again to the best practice guide compiled by a who's who of the electrical industry:

http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/industry/best_practice/BPG4_08.pdf

 

[sjm]

Have you looked at the guide IQ? Just checked the other thread where MrEnigma reckons code 2 doesn't warrent an unsatisfactory assessment. IMO he is incorrect and quote from the guide as follows.
Page 10 "It would not be reasonable to indicate a "satisfactory" assessment if any observation in the report had been given a code 1 or code 2 recommendation"

 

[IQ Electrical]

I know the guide like the back of my hand, that paragraph is actually highlighted.

It's just frightening that someone could be producing 'satisfactory' PIR's with code 2 defects listed!

 

[Guest 004]

'knew it would be good debate"

 

[IQ Electrical]

A rather one sided 'debate' I think you'll find!

 

[Guest 004]

Have you looked at the guide IQ? Just checked the other thread where MrEnigma reckons code 2 doesn't warrent an unsatisfactory assessment. IMO he is incorrect and quote from the guide as follows.
Page 10 "It would not be reasonable to indicate a "satisfactory" assessment if any observation in the report had been given a code 1 or code 2 recommendation"

hardly conclusive

 

[sjm]

Can he back up his opinion with facts?
Any regs or accepted advice/guidance would be good. I'm with you IQ.
Sorry should have put "lol" after asking if you'd checked the guide, it was said with my tongue firmly in my cheek.

 

[Guest 004]

I recently done a PIR that consisted of 70 DB's fed via 2 400 Amp 3 phase sub mains, any code 1 issues had to dealt with immediately, as the client wanted a satisfactory report. (as agreed by all the client engineers) After the report was submitted, an order was then placed to rectify all the code 2's.
This was done for a London Borough Council

 

[IQ Electrical]

Can he back up his opinion with facts?
Any regs or accepted advice/guidance would be good. I'm with you IQ.
Sorry should have put "lol" after asking if you'd checked the guide, it was said with my tongue firmly in my cheek.

You're right sjm, it's a fast-track way to losing respect and trust on a forum.

I just hope anyone learning the ropes reads the whole thread and comes to the right conclusion.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I recently done a PIR that consisted of 70 DB's fed via 2 400 Amp 3 phase sub mains, any code 1 issues had to dealt with immediately, as the client wanted a satisfactory report. (as agreed by all the client engineers) After the report was submitted, an order was then placed to rectify all the code 2's.
This was done for a London Borough Council

Ah well that is conclusive, makes my industry-wide approved guide look rather silly now....

 

[Guest 004]

If you can show me some hard evidence that ALL code 2's are unsatisfactory I will gladly accept the fact, and indeed go back to the engineers of that council, and shove it where the sun dont shine. I am just a doer, they are the engineers.

 

[sjm]

It's a fast-track way to losing respect and trust on a forum.

I just hope anyone learning the ropes reads the whole thread and comes to the right conclusion.

Sorry IQ can't quite work this out, is it aimed at me?

Edit: Long day, wrong end of stick.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Sorry IQ can't quite work this out, is it aimed at me?

Absolutely not!!!

 

[IQ Electrical]

If you can show me some hard evidence that ALL code 2's are unsatisfactory I will gladly accept the fact, and indeed go back to the engineers of that council, and shove it where the sun dont shine. I am just a doer, they are the engineers.

What is the meaning as per BS7671:2008 of a 'code 2 defect' ?

Answer: Requires improvement

If something requires improvement, is it then satisfactory for continued service?

Read the list of code 2 defects in the guide that you already have and tell me which ones you'd be happy to ignore, bearing in mind that once you issue a 'satisfactory' report, no further defects are likely to be rectified!

If you still can't man up and admit error for the sake of this thread and anyone learning the ropes, I give up.

 

[sjm]

I recently done a PIR that consisted of 70 DB's fed via 2 400 Amp 3 phase sub mains, any code 1 issues had to dealt with immediately, as the client wanted a satisfactory report. (as agreed by all the client engineers) After the report was submitted, an order was then placed to rectify all the code 2's.
This was done for a London Borough Council

Isn't this the correct procedure??
Code 1's require immediate action and code 2's require remedial action as soon as possible in order to rectify a potential danger.
With this in mind how can an installation with code 2's be classed as satisfactory.
I think that the fact that "an order was then placed to rctify all the code 2's" speaks volumes don't you!