Plumbers replacing electric showers

[KevinS]

Hi,
ive been tasked with writing a 'standard operation sheet' for plumbers to replace electric showers safely.

at the moment they are replacing showers with no test gear, then the electrician is following behind doing a Zs

my concern is; they turn it off at the dp switch and remove the shower, I am not happy that it is dead when they turn if off as they have no method of checking. There may be a fault on the dp switch and they would not know

is this an acceptable procedure
remove cover of shower.
turn shower on by double pole switch,
VOLTSTICK (yes I know) will indicate,
if volt stick does NOT indicate, stop and wait for advice off an electrician
turn off by dp switch, VOLTSTICK will stop indicating,
if VOLTSTICK does not stop indicating, stop and wait for electrician
switch breaker off at board and proceed

i know what you are going to say, but the company won't pay for test gear for 20+ plumbers, hence the VOLTSTICK idea.

is this classed as safe enough, it's safer than what's happening now,
cheers

 

[onions1066]

I can see what's wrong with it, I did mention turning off dp switch and the breaker, I also did mention 'can of worms'.
at the moment they are taking them out with no testing whatsoever

i really don't think you are going to the get the answer you are looking for, if they want a risk assessment/task sheet for this job I would just print them off the safe isolation procedure and them deal with it from there, that is honestly the only way to cover your arse without putting your self in the firing line

 

[Knobhead]

I can see what's wrong with it, I did mention turning off dp switch and the breaker, I also did mention 'can of worms'.
at the moment they are taking them out with no testing whatsoever

Let them carry on.

Why is it beholden to you to write the procedure? Why, to cover you're employers collective asses!

 

[oldtimer]

Couple of things don't worry about him connecting it up worry that he will upgrade it from a 7 to 9kw on a 3036 board as this seams to be the standard. Also isolation at the DP switch is a no no as domestic appliance guy got a shock from a cooker because the live connection was welded on at the switch.

One last point a voltage tester remember that they need to test between L-N then L-E then N-E because L-N would have been no good to the domestic appliance guy above

 

[Guest55]

So a company big enough to employ 30 plumbers & vans wont spend £30ish on a decent set of fluke volt probes for workers they are legally obliged to protect ?
i'll call a laywer and ambulance for you.
;-)

 

[KevinS]

i really don't think you are going to the get the answer you are looking for, if they want a risk assessment/task sheet for this job I would just print them off the safe isolation procedure and them deal with it from there, that is honestly the only way to cover your arse without putting your self in the firing line

i have getting the answer I'm looking for - I'm not writing a procedure. Will let someone else do it, in a couple of weeks time he will have totally forgot that he asked me.
Cheers.

 

[KAS1]

Report you boss to the HSE ASAP or get the said plumbers mates to practice their CPR or put 999 on speed dial for medical treatment

 

[ruston]

Is this the housing company with the Italian sounding name?

Untrained personnel isolating and working on unproven conductors is a death wish and no risk assessment or alternative method would satisfy a coroner at an inquest - Don't do it . Simple . They are looking for a scapegoat to aid production and cut costs , I doubt whether an electrician will ever "follow up"

 

[londonlec]

Most firms I've worked on the sparks have replaced showers and immersion elements.

 

[telectrix]

a sligtht digression, but the last time i went to a shower that had been changed by a plumber, he'd found the 6mm cable was a tad short to reach the terminal block so he twisted and taped a bit of 2.5mm to the 6mm inside the shower. wondered why the shower wouldn't work a week later with his bodge all welded together and the 30A HRC fuse in the CU blown. muppet.

 

[thomas-1981]

I can't see how this is going to work. Surely the plumbers would have to prove they're competent? at electrics
How quickly behind the plumber does the electrician turn up to carry out the Zs measurement? 1 hour? 1 day? 1 week? Is the shower out of use until tested?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Or why don't they just switch the breaker off, rather than at the isolator, if in doubt get an electrician in, but even a voltage tester as mentioned before would be better than a volt stick alone. They would need a proving unit to prove the volt stick is working correctly.

I agree, but I think I would be locking it off as well - just to be a bit safer.

As for our Friend the OP having to write this "Standard Operations Sheet", I think I would politely decline to do this UNLESS the company instructs me in writing and adds that in the event of an accident I will in no way be blamed for it and have it signed by the boss of the company. Even then, I wouldn't be entirely comfortable with it.

 

[Knobhead]

What's this I'm signing?
Oh don't worry about that, it won't concern you (until things go wrong. Then we'll have it coppied and sent to the corroners court).

 

[Robert Turnbull]

Why don't they get electricians to change the showers?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Why don't they get electricians to change the showers?

Well it's that 15mm water pipe innit ..... can't have electricians touching that mate .. that's the plumber's job!!

 

[ruston]

Well it's that 15mm water pipe innit ..... can't have electricians touching that mate .. that's the plumber's job!!

It's ok if it's in plastic though , cos proper plumbers don't work in plastic - do they!!!!!!!! :reddevil::reddevil:

 

[Stuuk1]

I haven't read all of the answers but I'd be more inclined to turn the shower on, leave it running and flick the breaker off, lock it off and then switch the double pole isolator.

Obviously without test gear none of this would be done anyway and I would be telling the company MD to sign it...

 

[Robert Turnbull]

Why don't they get electricians to change the showers?

Well it's that 15mm water pipe innit ..... can't have electricians touching that mate .. that's the plumber's job!!

Never had a problem myself

 

[ruston]

I haven't read all of the answers but I'd be more inclined to turn the shower on, leave it running and flick the breaker off, lock it off and then switch the double pole isolator.

Obviously without test gear none of this would be done anyway and I would be telling the company MD to sign it...

Probably right , but if they aint got the voltage tester they not likely to have a lock either :biggrin:

 

[Silly Sausage]

i have getting the answer I'm looking for - I'm not writing a procedure. Will let someone else do it, in a couple of weeks time he will have totally forgot that he asked me.
Cheers.

Haha...problem solved hours ago!
Just keep on forgetting to do it.

 

[Robert Turnbull]

You'd be best to write the correct safe isolation and locking of procedures involved nothing less!