Pretty Sure This is Wrong...............

[Crosswire]

Saw a DB in a new build flat today (before tenant moved in).

Was a standard dual RCD board, but the circuit supplying the fridge was not on either RCD

Was run in twin and earth in plasterboard walls same as other circuits, not in swa or surface


Now I can see WHY they did this - to preserve food in case of RCD trip - But surely this doesn't comply?


And before anyone says they future tenant will be a 'skilled or instructed person'

a) obviously they are not
b) if they are, then all circuits would not have to be RCD protected?


Any thoughts?

 

[Guest123]

Could you tell if it was enclosed in a galv conduit inside the wall or any other type of mechanical protection???

 

[electromonkey]

How close did you look, RCBO?

 

[Crosswire]

No was standard MCB,

To be honest I couldn't see inside wall, MAY have been in galv conduit I can't say for certain. Will try to find out over next few days, but my gut feeling is that it is unlikely

 

[SirKit Breaker]

If it hasn't got mechanical protection is it 50mm or more into the wall?

 

[telectrix]

if it's run down the centre of a studded wall, it will just be 50mm deep.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Is the installation to the 16th?

 

[telectrix]

as in designed prior to 2008?

 

[Crosswire]

Installation to 17th,

Can't say for certain the depth of the cable in the wall, but
if running cables inside studded walls ARE 50mm deep then why do we bother with RCD's at all?

 

[nickblake]

think you'll find most studded walls are made of 75mm x 50mm timber so if the cables are installed smack in the center of the stud it will be 37.5mm from either side of the stud so not at a depth of 50mm

 

[telectrix]

the only reason an RCD is fitted to non-socket circuits is because of the 50mm rule. we still have to fit to socket circuits up to 32A for use by ordinary persons. ( 20A if indoors and not intended for outside use )

 

[telectrix]

think you'll find most studded walls are made of 75mm x 50mm timber so if the cables are installed smack in the center of the stud it will be 37.5mm from either side of the stud so not at a depth of 50mm

add 1" for the plasterboard, ( both sides) and you just get 4" or 100mm.

 

[Octopus]

If its a standard dual board how was the MCB for the offending socket connected, or was it a high integrity board?

 

[nickblake]

What a muppet im off to burry my head in the sand

 

[AlanWirral]

The quicker RCBO's become cheaper the better!

I'd love to walk into B&Q one day and see...'10 way Dist. Board inc your choice of RCBO's for £60'

Saying that I can't wait to walk into B&Q and not see a single electrical item other a man behind a desk to which you have to show your ID too, who then lets you into the 'Electricians Section'

 

[Darkwood]

going on a tangent --- any beer in the fridge? :smiley2:

 

[Engineer54]

Saying that I can't wait to walk into B&Q and not see a single electrical item other a man behind a desk to which you have to show your ID too, who then lets you into the 'Electricians Section'

Thankfully, .... you'll be waiting a very long time to see that. Show ID, ...what ID you talking about then??

 

[GLENNSPARK]

think you'll find most studded walls are made of 75mm x 50mm timber so if the cables are installed smack in the center of the stud it will be 37.5mm from either side of the stud so not at a depth of 50mm

Yep. If it was say...100mm scants, then you have your 12mm board...would just cover it.......

 

[SimpleSimon]

The installer has looked at the OSG the example page about RCD omittance which shows a diagram of a high integrity board with circuits omitted from RCD. Ie fridge. - but they didnt take into account the other regs to consider.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[AlanWirral]

Thankfully, .... you'll be waiting a very long time to see that. Show ID, ...what ID you talking about then??

Napit/NIC/Elecsa card with your photo ID on.

And why do you say 'Thankfully'? Do you think it's right that any average person go into B&Q and buy electrical equipment?

 

[Engineer54]

Napit/NIC/Elecsa card with your photo ID on.

And why do you say 'Thankfully'? Do you think it's right that any average person go into B&Q and buy electrical equipment?

Now, ....Why did i know you were going to spurt out the scam providers?? Sooo, what about those electricians that work in the commercial or industrial side of our industry then?? Gonna ban them from buying too??
And.... what about me, and others like me, what ID do you want me to produce then??


Yes, it is the right of the average person to be able to buy whatever he/she wants to buy!! Who the hell are you to tell anyone what they can and can't buy?? The Retail businesses have been selling electrical goods/accessories since before i came into the industry, so what's the big difference now???

Listen, you and other electricians that think like yourself are NOT the electrical police. All you will achieve, if you did manage to get your way, is to force up material prices, ...not a great idea at the best of times that!! And to be perfectly honest, those 50/60 quid fully loaded CU's are being bought by electricians anyway!!

 

[AlanWirral]

I've hit a nerve here....

I'm off to buy a combi boiler....

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I've hit a nerve here....

I'm off to buy a combi boiler....

The corgi/gas safe Regulations allow you to do so.
Which is more than would be allowed if you had your way.

 

[AlanWirral]

I feel exactly the same about Gas.

I wouldn't touch it so I ring someone who knows what there doing.

 

[Engineer54]

But you could go out and buy all the materials you may need to install and connect-up that boiler. Maybe saving yourself a good few bob, because now your hiring your gas fitter on a labour only basis!!

Exactly the same goes for Joe Public, that needs to save some money on an Electrical installation. Maybe the homeowner wouldn't be able to afford the work being done by an electrician otherwise!!

 

[Plonker 3]

I feel exactly the same about Gas.

I wouldn't touch it so I ring someone who knows what there doing.

So you don't carry out any D.I.Y work round your own home. Just so that the correct trade carries out the correct job?


Ever put oil in your own motor vehicle? Or do you get the local mechanic to do that too?

 

[Rockingit]

NOTE TO ADMINS: Can we just please post a sticky entitled 'we all agree to disagree on this issue and please don't clog up every other thread with it...'

 

[AlanWirral]

So you don't carry out any D.I.Y work round your own home. Just so that the correct trade carries out the correct job?


Ever put oil in your own motor vehicle? Or do you get the local mechanic to do that too?

Don't be f***ing stupid now.

The things I do around my own home don't have the potential to kill me or my family. Messing about with gas and electrics do. Hence my point.

Now let's agree to disagree and get back on topic.

 

[Plonker 3]

As has been said before just because someone has a choice of where to buy materials doesn't mean they will carry out a bad job or just provide to a electrician working for labour only. Or do you not like losing your 15% mark up on materials?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I always wonder about the real reason why people advocate a scheme prohibiting DIY electrical work.
They often state that it will improve safety. When in fact, the evidence shows that such schemes don't improve safety at all, in fact quite the opposite.
Maybe I'm a cynic, but I think the real reason is they want to create a closed shop.
Unfortunately, the people that are affected the most by such schemes are those that can't afford to employ decent electricians.
Instead they either don't bother having work done, and often make do with unsafe or even dangerous installations, or they end up employing cowboys and chancers because they're cheap. Still end up with unsafe or dangerous installations, but with the added injury of having had to pay for it.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I've hit a nerve here....

I'm off to buy a combi boiler....

........... and I'll be happy to fit it for you

 

[Geordie Spark]

But you could go out and buy all the materials you may need to install and connect-up that boiler. Maybe saving yourself a good few bob, because now your hiring your gas fitter on a labour only basis!!

Exactly the same goes for Joe Public, that needs to save some money on an Electrical installation. Maybe the homeowner wouldn't be able to afford the work being done by an electrician otherwise!!

A few years ago, CORGI ended up in court with the Plumbers Union.

The Plumbers' Union's case was that they should be allowed to hang the boiler on the wall & connect all the water side of it leaving the flue & gas supply to CORGI registered fitters.

CORGI said a boiler is a gas appliance & therefore ALL the work should be done by their members.

The plumbers' union said in court "A boiler can be fired by solid fuel, oil and even by electricity. Therefore we maintain that a boiler is NOT a Gas Appliance, it is a Water Appliance"

The Court agreed & sent CORGI away with its tail between its legs.